LOST-Theories.com

First of all. Good to see you writing something else than an episode analysis.

Ofcourse this has been something we have been thinking about for years. To get those passengers on 815 is alot of work yes, but I dont think an ‘organisation’ would be behind it then. That would be nearly impossible to influence sayid to go on a flight later, not to forget Jack had to FIGHT his way onto 815 because he almost couldnt get his father onboard. Hurley had to run his fat ass off to get on 815.

I would say if 815 was suppose to crash it would most likely be Jacob influecing the chain of events surrounding a certain person because he needs that person in his future plan for the island.

And as we see in latest episode. Richard has an interest in Locke. This also looks like if Jacob or Richard were picking people to do work on the island in the future.

Or maybe the Oceanic 6 are the ones who shouldnt have been on the island originially. Sun should have left Jin at the airport, Sayid should have stepped on a plane a day before 815, Jack shouldnt have been allowed to fly without those papers for his dads body, Hurley shouldnt have made it in time, Aaron shouldnt have been on the island at all. And Kate, well kate I can’t find something for.

Anyways lots to think about. Also the airstrip ofcourse the others were building.

All part of a bigger plan I guess.

+1 btw

i agree wholly. The key event that lead to the crash on the island was Desmond not entering the code. This was not planned and was the product of his extreme state of mind. (unless we get a flashback in which we find that desmond is distraught because he is asked to crash a plane)

Also, the reason that the plane was even in the vicinity of the island was the storm that blew them off course. Unless someone could predict this storm, they could not have successfully brought the plane the the island.

I love posts that tackle big ideas and try to flesh out big answers.

+1

It’s some of the small things like Joanna drowning that clog up my thinking also. I think the Island/universe brought down the plane. But if dealing with a force that powerful, why even need course correctors? I mean it can stop bullets.

As for your point about “the other characters have equally finely-balanced circumstances that could have changed,” I think the Island protected those finely-balanced circumstances, right down to Jin picking a flower. But it really is an enormous bite to swallow. Those three who got shot outside Ben’s house…?? Of course the point may be that Sawyer wasn’t getting hit b/c he needed to save (?) Claire — get her anyway. But why did those three need to be alive up to that point? The pilot in the pilot was pretty quickly removed from the equation.

As for your latter discussion re: invulnerability, the Island must have the power also to make people invincible. If Locke can miraculously survive a big fall once, than he can twice. Have we seen a course correction involving someone’s death who shouldn’t have died?

I always come back to the Island’s power and fallibility. If the Island was infallible, there would be no suspense. Kearney’s coming? No need to worry. And here’s another problem I have, why doesn’t Kearney slip and die? If the Island can insure that all of those people board a plane and survive a plane crash, then it can remove a little threat like Kearney. Perhaps the Island needs to “move,” and it’s using Kearney to get the job done. Hmm. I need coffee.

Thanks for writing a nice piece.

Fate,

You’re totally right about an organization not being behind the plane crash scheme. It’s definitely a “force.”

We’ll have to wait and see about the Oceanic 6 and if what they do when the get off the Island is only made possible by having been on the Island.

Quick side note, I read your You Know You’re Addicted to Lost When comments yesterday. I was crying over that stick carving.

Stone,

I don’t think you can say with certainty that Desmond’s failure to push the button wasn’t determined. Why did he see the tear in Kelvin’s suit that day? Why did Kelvin’s head bust open? Arguably, Kelvin’s purpose was to get Desmond not to push the button at the right time.

You sort of contradicte yourself by saying all of these events seem too unlikely to be by “fate”, chance, what have you. If all these events like the plane crashing and only the select special people who have predetermined purposes/ destinys dont die and you say that was NOT supposed to happen doesnt make sense. If you would only begin by watching the episode where numerous times Michael had guns at his head with the trigger not going off shouldve dispelled that notion unless you mark that up as random chance too. Michaels destiny has in fact already happened he just doesnt know it yet….but much like in the movie the crow “Theyre dead the just dont know it yet”, the series of events must play out how they already have, thus if Michael would die before the event (helping take the losties off the island) then that event couldnt happen which would be a paradox and wouldnt be allowed.

thechosenone - your point is pretty much one that I am validating here; that the people that survived did so because they have a purpose that requires their continued survival. What that doesn’t explain is whether the plane crash was deliberate or not.

I can’t just put the plane being in that location, as Desmond just so happened to not press the button, down to ‘fate’. (It’s sloppy writing, if nothing else. Because if that’s the case the writer’s can get away with the most incredible things happening and putting it down to ‘fate’.)

Fate should, at least, make an attempt at obeying the known laws of the universe, don’t you think!? Otherwise they may as well have just beamed the Oceanic people from wherever they were to the Island and not bothered with all that plane crash business in the first place!

(And indeed, as others have pointed out, the role of Richard Alpert/Abaddon, etc, appears to be one that ‘guides’ specific people on to a path towards the Island. That’s got little to do with fate, and more to do with intent.)

I totally agree that fate should make an attempt at obeying the known laws of the universe. I don’t think it’s just fate at work; I think it’s a force. But I would apply your thought here too — the force should bend to rules. The ability to make people invincible — like Michael when he crashed his car — bugs me. Where is the suspense? What else can Michael do? Can he fly? Walk on water? Or can he just survive the unsurvivable?

I don’t believe the Plane Crash was intended, instead I think certain people knew it would happen and they ‘arranged’ to have who they wanted on the plane. People who the island would not let die. Obviously there were a lot of randoms on the plane who had nothing to do with the island and could die.

Well I think that the flight was planned but no human could actually do it so that they all had the same seats and hurley was late and so on. So if it was planned I believe it was the island or Jacob who brought them there not just coincidence.

Also MrComet I know you wrote a big old theory on Tthe sonar fence and how the DHARMA must have created the smoke monster. Well I have written a theory I think you’ll like to see.

AC, I think I have to look at it like this. The show has clearly shown us that some of the passengers, Locke, Jack, Aaron, etc. were supposed to be on the island. I think it has to be more than chance that brought all of those people on the same plane and in the vicinity of the island. As much as I hate the idea that the island intended for the plane to crash, it seems to make more sense than the Losties ending up on the island because of mere chance.

we still do not know for sure whether michael cannot be killed

keamy did try to shoot him with the same gun that killed alex (i think),

keamy assumed his gun was broken

gault seems to have “fixed” the gun, or at least that is what he said right before he tried to shoot him

who knows

all this plot detective stuff is extremely boring

I like your humility. I think we will all be eating some humble pie before this is all over. +1

AC, +1 I have thought for sometime now, that some, but not all of flight 815’s passengers were intended to get to the island. But it also seemed like a very risky way to ensure that they did.

I was going to add why I think it,but it was too long,so I am going to post it in a theory.

apple - i think you are right. i confused my facts. maybe kelvin’s job was to either crash the plane or insure that desmond would. maybe the electromagnet was never used by the others but was fired up by kelvin to crash the plane?

also, why did the others recruit kelvin in the first place? did they need an ex-soldier? he seems to have no other value to them.

AC I like the way you challenge your own assumptions, the whole history of science is based on challenging the assumptions which appeared to be right. It’s a healthy process to play sceptic to yourself so +1 for that.

Me, well I just can’t make my mind up on this yet; one thing which I can’t seem to see though,regards this argument, in the post and the comments, is concerning Frank Lapidus and Seth Norris. From BOTH points of view which have been addressed here, have you, or anyone got thoughts on how they fit into this very question? I keep going round in circles with it!

Great question about the pilots solarchap. I also wonder how they will explain Lapidus’ not being on the plane. Whether or not the plane was intended to crash on the island may only be resolved after we learn the extent of Seth Norris’ involvement in brining the plane towards the island.

+1 AC. I have always been wondering how all these people survived a mid-air plane exposion thousands of feet in the air. A while back I was pondering the idea that maybe they were just drugged or something and put on the island. How else could you describe so many people surviving something like that????

But I think you figured it out. Everyone who survived was meant to survive because the island wouldn’t let them die. Not yet at least. The only hole I see is that not everyone who survived plays a prominent role in the series or, in other words, is worth the island keeping alive.

For instance, if your theory holds true, and people like Jack, Claire, Locke, etc. only survived the crash because the island wouldn’t let them die that is understandable. But, what about everyone else? There would need to be a reason why Nicki, Paulo, Nathan, Cindy, Scott, Steve, and the countless “extras” survived the crash.

But I am being nitpicky now. Good post.

Plus, I think you know I am leaning towards the idea that the plane crash might have been a set-up. I believe this based on Abaddons proposal that Locke go to Australia for a walkabout. He really wanted him to go to Australia, and I don’t think it was for a walkabout. I think it was so he could be on 815.

Even early in season 1 Sayid mentions that nobody should have survived to Kate. The writers have suggested from the beginning that ‘miracles’ have been occuring.

The mystery still to this day is how did all this happen?

AC, I don’t believe that flight 815 was intended to crash either. I have never really believed that “the island” has a will of its own. I’m saying this to qualify my thoughts that if the island didn’t do it then somebody did. And I have a really hard time believing that anyone has that much control over so many people and such a huge event. Thus it was not intended.

I always appreciate your well thought out posts. They balance my “gut feeling” theories. +1