Ben is out of Aces
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By Irocz28
- Ben is out of Aces
- Created: Mar 27, 2008
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.2: The Glass Ballerina
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
He is out of aces.
— Irocz28
Can someone tell me why most people on this site think Ben Linus is the Second Coming or something? All I hear anymore is “Ben is always one step ahead” or “Ben always has an ace up his sleeve”. So because this Lost break has me so bored I checked out the episode transcripts to track Ben’s activity over the past 10 episodes or so. My Conclusion: This guy is pathetic.
Past episodes: It is important to mention that up to this point Ben’s longtime love (Juliette) has already kicked him to the curb and gone with his arch nemesis Jack.
Episode 3.20: This is the last moment Ben has any kind of control. He shoots Locke and leaves him in the grave to die.
Episode 3.21: Karl betrays Ben and the Others and warns the Losties about how Tom & Crew will be leaving a day early to kidnap the pregnant women. Juliette has already beat Karl to it by marking the tents with dynamite, not preganant women.
Episode 3.22 + 3.23: Ben has a sequence of events where he really looks like he is in control. He meets Jack on the island. Jack then proceeds to beat the hell out of Ben because he thinks he killed Sayid, Bernard, and Jin. Jack drags a bloody Ben back to the main group, and throws him on the ground. Ben then introduces Alex to her real parent, Rosseau. The two then help each other in tying Ben up.
Back on the beach it is revealed that Ben never intended on having Jin, Sayid, and Bernard shot. This is revealed when Tom says, “Ben doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about, he’s lost it! I mean look at what they did to us. Instead of putting three bullets in the damned sand, we should have killed them for real.” This decision by Ben ultimately gets Tom & Crew killed. So to recap, Ben gets crushed by Jack, Sayid, Jin, and Bernard all live, but Tom & Crew are all dead. Good plan Ben.
Also, in this episode is Ben begging Mikhail to bail him out of all his lies by killing Desmond, Charlie, and the two women in the looking glass station.
BTW, at the end of the episode Jack totally ignores Ben pleas not to make the call to the freighter and he does it anyway. Ben also pleads to Locke, “Do it John. Shoot him!” John, of course, doesn’t shoot him and also ignores Ben, the man in control.
Episode 4.1: Season opener and Ben is tied to a tree. Five minutes into the episode, Rosseau punches him in the face. Ben spends most of the episode tied to a tree thinking about how much control he has.
Episode 4.2: Sawyer beats the hell out of Ben after he tries to get in his head about leaving Kate with Jack. Ben then fails to kill Charlotte. Locke nearly kills Ben before he finally gives up information Michael (Man on Boat) provided him on Charlotte. Locke should have killed him anyway. You will notice a pattern which indicates the only person Ben has any control over is Locke. If it wasn’t for Locke, Ben would have been dead many times.
Episode 4.3: Our first shot of Ben has him pushed from behind by Sawyer while being dragged by Danielle. Next shot has Ben tied to a chair. Locke refuses to give him water. At the end of the episode, Sayid is revealed as working for Ben in the future as an assassin. I will get more into this later.
Episode 4.4: Ben gets inside Locke’s head by telling him he is more Lost than he ever was. No big deal. For some reason Locke is easily manipulated by Ben. We saw this in the vault and now we are seeing it here. You disappoint me John. Later on, Miles speaks with Ben. He may have blackmailed him or he may have been talking in code. We do not know yet.
Episode 4.5: The Constant. No Ben sightings.
Episode 4.6: Ben manipulates Locke into letting him out of the dungeon in exchange for watching the video tape and telling him who the man on the boat is. No surprise. Locke is soft. And even Ben admits to John that he withheld this information so long because “it was the only bargaining chip he had left”. Ben also tells John, “If my people still wanted me, they would have stormed this camp a long time ago”, indicating they may have turned on him.
Episode 4.7: Ji Yeon. No Ben sightings.
Episode 4.8: Ben sends Alex, Rosseau, and Karl to the Temple. For all we know he was trying to protect them. If that is the case, the plan backfired. The people who shot were obviously not snipers (they missed their first two shots before hitting Karl, similar to how Keamy missed his first few shots before hitting the clay target on the freighter).
Recap: Ben had some leverage but he has used it all up. He HAD a few aces up his sleeve from when he was still in control. He had some information on Charlotte from his man on the boat. This prevented him from getting his head blown off by Locke. He had some old information on Widmore he used to get himself out of the dungeon. All of that leverage was remains from when Ben still had control.
In the last few episodes though the only thing Ben has done was be a fun punching bag for Jack, Sawyer, and Rosseau, he has manipulated softie Locke a few times, he nearly got his “so-called” daughter shot (the shots were all over the place and one could have easily hit Alex), and the trailer for the next episode shows him and Locke frantically running away from someone. All his Others have either turned on him or are dead because of him. He is out of aces.
Yes, he is off the island in the future, but we didn’t get much from that conversation with him and Sayid. For all we know, Widmore could have captured Ben and is using him as a pawn. Maybe Widmore is blackmailing Ben with Alex, just like Ben is blackmailing Sayid with his friends on the island.
I guess only time will tell. Enjoy the break.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ben | Benjamin Linus | 3.20, 4.9, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1729 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.2 | The Glass Ballerina | 10-11-2006 | Sun, Jin, Jae | 201 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Michael returns | 2.19 | 161 |
Key locations
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| The blast door map | 2.17 | 159 |
Keeping it real short for you, Ben is winning!
I don’t know…for someone so powerless and hated, other than being beaten up repeatedly (since the very first time we met him, no less), Ben has survived quite well. In some ways, I think that is an impressive display of power, or at least a will to survive. I think you may be underestimating him. But like you said, only time will tell!
By the way, you said something that sparked my curiosity…about the only person he seems to control being Locke…and wouldn’t Jacob also be included in that? It needs more analyzation, but those may be two of the most important people to control. What do you think?
I know that is what a lot of people think dabiatchishere, but I don’t see it. Can you explain what you think his plan is?
So Lost, I haven’t really seen any evidence that Ben controls Jacob. And no I don’t think he would be an important person to control. What has he really done so far that makes him important?
Irocz28 - really, I don’t know…it was just something that popped into my head when you wrote that. I know some people think that Jacob is/controls the smoke monster and other apparitions on the island. Not sure that I believe that…I am usually very confused by it all. Just a thought!
iroc i agree with you and your evidence to support your theory that ben is pathetic it seems, but we all know that ben is a freak of nature and hes got this thing all figured out. i wouldnt be saying any of this without sayids flashforward of course otherwise id be defending your every word.
Ben is, was, and will be the most evil character on the show.
He masterminded the mass murder of virtually all of the Dharma Initiative
He personally murdered his own father - for forgetting his birthday
He engineered the murder of Juliet’s Island lover, Goodwin
He attempted the murder of Locke
He’s ordered the kidnapping of pregnant women and children, holding many children (including Alex) indefinitely.
By any rights, Linus is an arch criminal, and we all know that in America, and especially on American TV, crime doesn’t pay.
Thus, to the cheers of the vast majority of viewers, Ben Linus is going down, down, down.
Irocz28… I know I was a little harsh on your last theory bur this “Ben spends most of the episode tied to a tree thinking about how much control he has.” this is genius… I couldn’t stop laughing… Nice one…
By the way, you don’t have to make remarks about how good you write your theories, it just shows, like on that quote
To Veffre
Ben Linus, said he is a good guy…but ben lies…sooooo……
I have said this on numerous accounts now… Ben is the good guy. He is made out to be such a bad guy right now that it would be such a twist to have him as the real good guy. We all know the writers love twists.
You are absolutely correct, ben has had a bad time over the past number of days/weeks. However, he still has an “ace up his sleves” at all times. Even Miles pointed out how Ben went from being a prisoner to a resident in their village. I don’t think for a second that he has planned for everything to happen. But he always has a plan and a plan B. Ben Linus will not go down.
Bens people have not come for him because thats what he told them to do, Ben is exactly where he wants to be, How can Ben do anything to “help” the island stuck hiding in the “temple”. He is most effective where he is. And is directing the plays as he always has,
Your kidding yourself if you don’t see Ben as a mastermind of manipulation
Come on, Ben let himself get captured, as Henry Gale, and gets one of the losties to shoot 2 people and give up his friends, who ends up working for Ben again!
Ben is manipulating you if you think he is feeble and stupid LOL
Why can’t he be “the man behind the curtain”? I always saw him as like the wizard from Wizard of Oz. Just another guy who’s not in Kansas anymore, who happens to know what buttons and levers to pull.
alvaro, thanks for the feedback. I try to throw a joke in there once in a while. No hard feelings on my last post. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Macneil, I disagree. I honestly think has “used up all his bargaining chips”, as he would say. I don’t know how people think he has all this planned out. Juliette left him, his daughter left him, his Others are dead, he is constantly getting beat, the freighter folk are coming and leaving the island as they please, etc. Is this all part of his master plan?
Slayer, he was able to do all that as Henry Gale with the help of his Other friends. Remember, they captured Walt and that black woman gave Michael the list of people. And he got Michael to work for him again through his friends, Tom, who went to NYC to recruit Michael. He wouldn’t have been able to do any of that without the help of the rest of the Others. Who does he have now to help him?
Obviously we don’t know what the deal is with Ben and Sayid in the future, but it seems pretty clear that he’s in control of something. Your examples of him getting beaten and tied up don’t show that he’s not in control. His “control” has always been psychological, and it looks like it still is, to me.
It’s hard to say for sure, but a lot of the examples you give of people disobeying his orders could simply be a case of plain ol’ reverse psychology.
Nat, is right on.
Ben getting beaten is part of the psychological manipulation,
The guy just offed his daugthers boyfriend, with a sentence or two, while imprisoned.. well was..
Yes, Ben had help as Henry Gale, but the point was he planned it excuted it and it worked. Things don’t always go as planned. But a good thinker always more then one way to his goal, and can adapt
The largest evidence for Bens “evil” is the mass murder of dharma, and the kidnapping of pregnant women and children. he did engineer some individual murders out of jealousy and revenge, but no ones perfect and we still dont know the whole story surrounding why he shot Lock. as for the Mass Murder, we dont know anything about the Dharma Initiative, or the Hostiles, and certainly nothing about the conflict between the two. And in regards to kidnapping children who’s parents have just died and giving them a better environment to live in, I think I would call that a compasionate act, not “evil”
Ben’s gotten Locke to set him free … he has a man on the boat … and he eventually has Sayid doing his dirty work.
Not too pathetic.
yah ben has sayid going all over the world killing people for him so your pretty much wrong here
Yah, maybe Ben is not as in control as we thought, but Miles ntoiced he does get his desire quickly. One day he is in jail and the next he is fancy free and comfy in his home. I am so sick of everyone downing Ben.
Linus is a name of good people, like in Linus Pauling and Linus Torwalds.
Julliette told jack Ben was going to win, outside that gas station. She believes Ben is capable of beating widmore’s people, while a prisoner of locke. Ben would have to be a evil mastermind who’s always in control, to gain that kind of rep.