the villain of the piece
+6 8 Votes
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By truthteller
- the villain of the piece
- Created: Mar 26, 2008
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
we all took pity on the survivors without putting ourselves in Bens situation
— truthteller
I have been thinking and i think it time we reassessed who are good and bad guys in the show at the moment.
Firstly we seem to think that the crash survivors are are good guys, i have to disagree. Saiyd is not a good guy he was a bad guy before the island and is still as ruthless as he was before. Jin in a way sold his sole and he did bad things before the island, Sawyer certainly isnt a good guy he was a con man and a murderer.There are others too with a less than impressive past. The others have killed less people from the crash survivors than the survivors have killed. In fact any plan thought of by the survivors involves death.
The others i believe are the good guys and its no wonder Ben treated themas he did presented with the files about them, who wouldnt do the same?
I think the show will now focus on the two sides merging together and becoming one. Ben will show himself to be a good guy and his past actions will be explained. The others saw the survivors as a threat to their home and presented with facts about them acted how they saw best.
So who do i think is our real villain ….Michael he has acted in a selfish way throughout and further proves that in the latest episode. Michael only works for himself and anything he does no matter who asks him is only done with his intersts in mind. I think he is in the coffin and finally gets to die which is what he is working towards at the moment. If Ben had approached Michael and Michael wa happy with Walt i dont believe he would have took the mission to “save his friends”. He is doing it purely so he can commit suicide.
In conclusion there are more good guys on Bens team than Jacks and i find it interesting how we have been introduced to Jacks team and started out by routing for them when really we were cheering for the wrong guys!!
I tink the true heros of the show will come from a merger between the two factions.This is intersting as we all took pity on the survivors without putting ourselves in Bens situation
Only time will tell now if the bad guys will redeem themselves and who will show their true colours.
Something to think about
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Desmond | Desmond David Hume | 2.23, 3.17, 4.5 | 859 |
| Jack | Jack Shephard | 1.1, 1.5, 2.11, 1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 3.9, 3.22, 3.1, 4.10, 4.12, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1459 |
| Kate | Katherine “Kate” Austen | 3.6, 1.2, 1.3, 2.9, 1.12, 1.16, 1.22, 3.15, 4.4, 4.12 | 713 |
| Sawyer | James “Sawyer” Ford | 3.4, 2.3, 2.6, 2.13, 1.16, 3.10 | 455 |
| Sayid | Sayid Jarrah | 2.14, 1.9, 3.11, 4.3, 4.12 | 390 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.23 | Live Together, Die Alone | 5-24-2006 | Desmond | 323 |
| 2.22 | Three Minutes | 5-17-2006 | Michael | 132 |
| 2.21 | ? | 5-10-2006 | Eko | 171 |
| 2.20 | Two for the Road | 5-3-2006 | Ana-Lucia | 96 |
| 2.19 | S.O.S. | 4-12-2006 | Rose, Bernard | 102 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Jack, Kate, and Sawyer captured | 2.23, 3.1 | 204 |
| Michael and Walt released | 2.23 | 290 |
| Michael captured | 2.22 | 115 |
| Michael shoots Ana-Lucia and Libby | 2.20 | 121 |
| Pearl station discovered | 2.21 | 143 |
Key locations
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| The crashed Nigerian plane | 1.19, 3.5, 1.21, 1.24, 2.10, 2.21, 3.14 | 155 |
| The Door “station” | 2.22 | 157 |
| Pala Ferry Pier | 2.21, 2.23, 3.2 | 160 |
| The Pearl station | 2.21, 3.5, 3.14 | 231 |
| The Swan station | 2.20, 2.23, 2.14, 2.17, 2.1, 2.2, 1.11, 3.3, 3.8 | 470 |
This is something I have been leaning towards for a while now, not so much that the survivers are bad, but most certainly that the others aren’t.
Ben murdered his own father, kidnaps children and lies, a lot. That would make him a bad guy.
i agree that ben will probably turn out to be the ultimate good guy (he tells us that he is often enough!), but i wouldnt say that the losties were bad. i know they havent all been innocent in the past, but most are slowly being redeemed (e.g jin, sawyer and kate etc….cant really speak for sayid though considering he is a murderer in the future).
The way this show has been organized from the beginning, we have never known all the facts about any significant event. Do we really know the reasons behind the purge, was Dharma the aggressors or the Hostiles the aggressors. Why were the children kidnapped? Was it to give them a home, the seemed pretty fine at the beginning of season 3 when they saw Jack, especially considering that their parents were either dead or kidnapped along with them. The point I’m trying to make is that we dont know the whole story to anything, and that being so we cannot make accurate judgements as to who is good or bad.
I believe the real lesson is that we are all a little good, and we’re all a little bad. We have it in us to love and hate. We are both savior and murderer. Right from the beginning, Jack finds the black and white stones. Good vs. evil. But what is good and what is evil. Are there really heroes and villains, or just people trying their best to make life work? Michael does a lot of bad crap, but to protect his son. Who wouldn’t do the same? I don’t believe I’ve seen a truly evil person on the show. Eko even says, “I did what I had to do.” Isn’t that all of us? A bunch of “lost” people doing what we have to do to “survive?”
Ben not only murdered his father, engineered the murder of Goodwin, and kidnapped many children, but he also masterminded the mass murder of the Dharma Initiative - whose personnel, from all appearances, were definitely non-violent.
So, no, there is NO WAY that the Others are “The Good Guys”. Too much blood on their hands. They are Good Guys only if you believe Ben’s lies.
Im goin to have to say i agree with truthteller
We dont know what dharma were really doing on the island whether it was good or bad
The cause Ben fights for might turn out to be good, but Ben himself, I’ll never believe is good. Regardless of good or bad, everyone we’ve seen on the island, lostie or otherwise, are thoroughly damaged.
What are you smoking?
I really don’t think Dharma has been cast in just a shiny pretty clean light. Didn’t the sri lanka video say that Dharma infected two villages intentionaly with a virus in order to test a vaccine. I don’t think the villages were on the island, but still. That rings of Mengele to me.
Interesting.
So ben does bad things, and may be a good guy. sounds like the archetypical anti-hero to me.
The Losties and the Others all seem to be victims, and any bad that they demonstrate seems to evolve from that.
My prediction: eventually the Island (Earth) will be the good guy and Widmore / Paik (Powerful Organisations) will be the baddies; as usual. +1
The original Dharma was peaceful, nonviolent, dedicated to the betterment of mankind, and avoiding the doomsday predicted by the Valenzetti equation.
At some point an evil guy named Mittlewerk decided the Dharma Initiative had failed to stop the doomsday predicted by the Valenzetti Equation, booted Alvar Hanso out, and started his own effort. That effort involved creating and testing the virus called the Spider Protocol. It was supposed to be tested on two villages in Sri Lanka, but this was cancelled for unspecified reasons (other than that the location was ultimately deemed “unsuitable”).
But my position is that the people that Linus mass murdered were the original Dharma Initiative, not the Mittlewerk team.
Most of this info is “non-canon”, but I think it’s obvious that the people who Linus mass murdered in the purge were the good guys - people such as Horace Godspeed, for example.