Two Planes. Which is the real 815?
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By fivestades
- Two Planes. Which is the real 815?
- Created: Mar 24, 2008
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.2: The Glass Ballerina
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
We have enough complicated s* to think about without me adding this but I think it is worth a mention! Sorry If you hate the idea!
michael: What I want is for you to tell me what my plane is doing at the bottom of the ocean.
TOM: (Chuckles) That’s not your plane. It’s a phony. A man named Widmore put it down there, and he staged the whole wreck.
michael: Staged? Why would he stage a—
TOM: Because he doesn’t want anyone else finding where the real plane ended up… except for him.
michael: Prove that this guy, Widmore, did what you say he did. Prove it.
(Tom motions Michael over. He picks up a file and tosses it down to Michael, who leafs through the documentary evidence while sitting in a chair: a photo of dug-up graves, a receipt…)
TOM: That’s the cemetery in Thailand where Widmore dug up the 300-odd corpses he needed. And the purchase order for the old 777 he bought through a shell company, and the shipping logs for the freighter he used to drop the whole mess down a trench deep enough to guarantee that no remains are ever gonna be identified. Do you have any idea what it would cost to bring those bodies up?
All evidence in season 4 clearly leads us to believe that the plane we have seen in the trench is the purchased plane.
I was wondering if (all elaborate scenarios considered) the plane at the bottom of the ocean is the plane that departed from Sydney and the plane on the island is the decommissioned 777. Shock Horror, Ben and Tom are lying to manipulate the losties. If they are allowing the Losties to return to the real world, my guess is, referring to the conversation above between Tom and Michael, they are likely throwing red herrings at them just in case they eventually talk.
Just to clear up I am proposing that re the 777s an elaborate process has taken place where x amount of the passengers and crew we know were removed from the original plane (the required passenger names were probably on a list) and placed either on the fake plane to experience a controlled crash, or placed on the island to awake after a staged crash, using the decommissioned 777 as wreckage. (Cindy is one character I’ve always felt was ‘in’ on a plan unknown to us.) Maybe because some characters moved seats the wrong people were taken thus……….they were not on the list.
I discounted a staged crash a long time ago whilst at the same time felt that a staged island crash would explain so much, now we have some evidence of a second purchased plane, I think this idea is worth a micro re-visit. Thanks
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Michael | Michael Dawson | 2.22, 1.14, 4.8 | 301 |
| Tom | Tom Brennan (Kate’s childhood boyfriend) | 83 |
Logistical nightmare. I would think it would be hard enough for Widmore to orchestrate and get away with what Tom is claiming he did. I guess I’m failing to see how swapping the plane achieves anything other than making it more complicated.
I guess it depends how you look at it, It would complicated to convince the survivors they had been in a genuine crash but less complicated to dump the original unwanted 815 bodies and plane en mass than fill another plane with dead bodies. Also less complicated to freighter the purchased plane to the island and arrange it already crashed. If you see what I mean?
Everyone did just ‘wake-up’ on the beach
was charlie in the front of the plane when it went down…yet ended up with the middle section sourvivers
No, I still do not see what you mean…
“It would complicated to convince the survivors they had been in a genuine crash…” “Everyone did just ‘wake-up’ on the beach”
They already believe they were in a genuine plane crash. Kate was awake through the whole thing as was Ana Lucia.
“Also less complicated to freighter the purchased plane to the island and arrange it already crashed.”
What did Ben, Juliet, and all the other Others see breaking apart in the sky over the island?
How would they haul all that wreckage inland under the noses of the Others?
I think so nell,
Also weirdly when they found the pilot in the cockpit section, the First class passengers were not in their seats??
And I think Cindy was in the front section of the plane when it began to plummet but she ended up with the tail section
Sham, Maybe we shouldn’t take Tom’s A4 photocopy from Widmore Industries as ‘iron clad’ proof that he purchased the plane. As I said above the others could be trying to convince the losties to use Widmores name in case they talk, when really they brought the plane?????? As for the others seeing the plane break up, I don’t know, maybe it was a manifestation of smokie or Jacob or a projection on Bens big sky screen, just kidding.
Also chirpey1987 wrote something interesting yesterday, that the bodies on the trench plane did not look like bodies that had been exhumed from the ground. It would be especially difficult to locate and exhume 300+ bodies suitable to appear as if they had suffered underwater decay.
I still think ben may have staged the under water plane with daed bodies from the purge, but swiching planes thats a bit out there with out much of a reason.
Fivestades, believe me, I don’t trust Tom any farther than I could throw him (zero feet), but I don’t trust Widmore’s Captain either.
I totally agree that the Others as well as Widmore’s people are trying to convince the Losties one way or the other by placing blame and offering suspect proof in the form of black boxes and purchase orders.
The jury isn’t out on this yet. It just seems too complicated even for LOST and although I disagree, you have inspired me to write a theory along the lines of cover ups.
fivestades, just one note about the cockpit. It was just the cockpit they found. Not the first class section, if I recall correctly.
Annie
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Frontplane.jpg
from Lost Pedia “The front section included the cockpit and, counting by the windows, the complete First Class with a maximum of 30 passengers.”
Some bodies were seen when the Jack, Charlie & Kate climbed up to the cockpit, but most were not in their seats. Where did they go??
Scottythedog.
It’s possible that someone wanted those exact people to be on the island unharmed but also wanted them to believe they had crashed….. That is the ‘reason’ someone would switch the plane.
I realise I am very much flogging a dead horse but one more time for clarity!
Plane 1 takes off, in flight turbulence begins, passengers are told to strap in, passengers gassed.
Plane 1 lands, 42(+) passengers ‘on the list removed.’ Few bodies added such as the pilot.
Plane 1 dumped in the trench with most original passengers on board.
Plane 2 is already dismantled and waiting on the beach.
42+ passengers inserted into the crash scene.
Easy
Sham’s point about Kate’s being conscious throughout throws a spanner in the works. Not only that, I do think it’s an over-complication that isn’t required. Valiantly argued, mind, but I’m not biting.
Five: Great arguments to support your claims! I do think it is entirely plausible that with enough money you can do anything!
I would think it would be very easy in a third world country to be able to come up with the bodies, and nobody being the wiser. Generally speaking, some impoverished countries would be willing to look the other way, in lieu of a little cold hard cash! +1 for good arguments
The fake plane is at the bottom. Best evidence—Frank Lapidus said the pilot in the plane in the trench was not 815’s pilot.