Ben could NOT have staged the fake 815 wreckage
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By MyStarbuckHatesLost
- Ben could NOT have staged the fake 815 wreckage
- Created: Mar 14, 2008
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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In questioning who faked the 815 wreckage I know that the easiest choice is Ben but I don’t think tha’s at all possible
Simply for the expense and logistics of it all Ben could not be responsible.
Lets look at what would have to be done to fake the crash wreckage.
First you would have to get your hands on a Boeing 777-200 airliner! Its not like these things are just laying around like a 1984 Chevy Impala. To date, there are over 500 of them in service around the world since the first commercial flight in June 1995. Only one of them has crashed and that one was this year in the UK. None of them has been retired so there aren’t any of them laying around in aircraft “junkyards.”
So what is the wreckage laying in the ocean? Well it has to be a 777 simply because you can’t fool an accident investigator by dropping an old, repainted 727 in the ocean. it HAS to be a Boeing 777. Also, the flight data recorder which the captain claims is from the wreckage would have to exactly match the one in the real aircraft. The model, serial number and other physical properties would have to be exactly the same. The data would also have to match exactly and show the same departure time, course, altitudes, etc or they would not match the data recorded on the ground.
Then you have to find 325 bodies to stuff in the plane, get the plane to the right place on a big barge and sink it. You couldn’t fly it there and crash it into the ocean because the flight data recorders would show data which doesn’t jibe with the facts. Then you have to make sure that the people who actually got the plane loaded with corpses and delivered it to the right spot will keep their mouths shut (in other words, kill them all)
But wait, there’s more…the aircraft would have broken up on impact if it crashed and the peices would be scattered all over the ocean floor. it would not be in a few large chunks laying next to each other (think Titanic) So the wreckage had to be placed where it is, you couldn’t just dump it in the water and hope for the best.
And still more…I can look at a picture of my house as seen from orbit by going to Google Earth…satellites photograph everything constatntly. A 777 on a barge would surely have been spotted by a satellite, an aircraft flying overhead, a fishing boat or even a tourist near the port from which it departed. It is awfully tough to hide something as big as a widebody jet
When you add up the time, expense and difficulty of a project this big there is no way that one individual could be behind it. It would take the resources of an entire government or at least a mega-corporation to pull it off.
And how would Ben have initiated such an undertaking? Would he call Richard Alpert and say “Richard, I need you to get a Boeing 777, put 325 bodies in it and dump it in the ocean near Malta …and make it look like its the wreckage of flight 815.”
If it is Ben, he would have to control an organization with hundreds of million of dollars in assets, deep, controlling contacts in the governments of Australia and the United States and have thousands of people working for him. the only other way I see Bem being responsible is if the “big Box” on the island that grants wishes is a really, really,really,really, big box.
This must have been done by a mega-corporation like Widmore or Paik industries or even the Hanso foundation and would have had to have been supported by the covert operation organizations of at least one large government for it even to have a remote possibility of success.
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.22 | Through The Looking Glass | 5-23-2007 | Jack | 1252 |
Well, Sayid and Desmond did get the note that said not to trust the captain. So maybe that is a clue not to trust the captain’s allusion that Ben staged the fake crash.
We know next to nothing about Ben. I would not say we’re in a position to judge what he is or isn’t capable of, in any scale or capacity. Remember, he did have access to the outside world, dozens of fake passports, and what looks like the equivalent of thousands of dollars just sitting in a drawer. Sounds like a schemer to me.
I’m with you, I don’t think the wreckage was faked.
a schemer…yes. A schemer with big bucks…yes. But just think what even a used Boeing 777 costs $50,000,000? and to get it with 325 bodies into an ocean trench without it being seen? More than one individual could pull off I think, regardless of his assets or connections
Maybe John Travolta was in on it.
What about those weird Oceanic commercials at the start of the season? Isn’t Oceanic part of the whole deal? What about the airplanes over Aaron’s crib-to-be in the medical facility when Ethan is showing Claire around.
Starbuck, I don’t think we know if the black box the captain has needs to match the copy on the ground at all. He didn’t say what he was doing with it. Maybe he was out there swapping the fake one you suggest above with the one in the plane. That could involve as few people as a hacker with access to the ground copy and a diver/submarine. Of course we know that somebody involved knows how to get their hands on these.
Since we don’t know about the black box, or the relationship between it and “The Captain,” the plane would not necessarily have to have arrived on a ship, at least according to part of the theory above. As for the plane breaking up on impact, it seems like it would on the water’s surface, but I’m not positive that we are speaking about fact here. Maybe someone with more knowledge of stress and metal can weigh in here.
If Oceanic Airlines is involved, getting a planeload of cadavers (or homeless people and motherless hippies) to disappear might be plausible, assuming of course a big time conspiracy is taking place at the highest levels. This could still mean just a reasonably small team of people and conspirators, not thousands of people and international efforts.
So if Oceanic is involved, it seems that it might be possible to have faked the crash in a reasonably hushed manner. Of course the mastermind kills as many people involved as possible to keep it hush hush.
By the way, if the people were “brought” to the island - i.e. specific individuals were chosen and somehow duped into taking that flight (long con style…), it seems that Oceanic would have to have played a role. They let Jack and Hugo on the plane, Jack by agreeing to transport his dead father. I don’t know how this works, but if these people were selected for whatever purpose (change the future is my guess), the airline would make a good conspirator.
I’m up for considering the idea that it isn’t Ben, but it still might be. Remember Ben’s whole “picture a box” speech to Locke? Maybe he somehow willed the plane into existence like so many other things on the island.
Also, I’m not really sure how this fits in, but I think we have a big clue from a recent episode (I forget which, Eggtown, maybe?) When that man is watching TV news footage of the wreckage and phones in to say that that is not the pilot’s corpse b/c he isn’t wearing a wedding ring. This is probably significant somehow. They must have made this scene for some reason. They wouldn’t include something like that unless it is a clue.
Just some ideas.
Idk if Ben could have done this but clues from the past say yes. lets think the pit of bodys that john locke was shot and pushed into was 1. uncovered and 2. not completely full. also in the episode where juliet first came to the island (in the flash back) it showed her talking to bens people in a large corperation (there was a name on a wall in that episode) pursuading her to come to the island. Another clue is desmonds trip to the past and back. if a human can do it maybe the aircraft could have done it too as it entered a magnetic field as we have seen Ben only hires the smartest and only the ones he can easily manipulate.
Rather than some ‘person/entity’ having arranged a really “believable” wreckage of a 777 with 300+ actual dead bodies that would fool experts, isn’t it just as plausable that the reports of finding flight 815 were based on faked [underwater] video? A video showing sections of plane that looks a hell of a lotI like 815, and some bodies, but not 300 of them. (Plus, Frank Lapidus says the “captain” shown on that underwater video was NOT the man he knew.)
If the remains of flight 815 were supposedly located in water thousands of kilometers deep it’s not a place that throngs of newsmen and cameras could visit for themselves, right? How many deep ROV’s are there in the world? It’s the old, “the moon landing was faked on a sound stage”, bait & switch trick.
Now why Oceanic Airlines would enter a conspiracy to support the faked video, I’ll leave that up to others. But the average guy on the street is going to believe it if the major news channels tell him a plane is on the bottom of the ocean and show 10 seconds of video to “prove” it.
I don’t think its there at all, I think it is all staged and the Media made it out to be there. WHoever is behind evrything wanted people to think that the plane is in the middle of the ocean when it wasn’t
What did it cost ABC to stage a cinamatic staged fake plane on the bottom of the ocean? If the producers of Lost could make it look like a real plane on the bottom of the ocean with fake bodies that look real, then why couldn’t Widmore or Hanso or Ben or someone else fake it cheap too?
Also, the theory that a real airplane would crash into many many pieces when hitting the water and would be spread over many miles, AND if by some miracle it stayed together, it would fall and land upside down (as the little plane in the fish tank did).
I agree, it is impossilbe to crash a real plane with real bodies.
But to fake enough video for a news clip, why not?
A fake video I can beleive but f/x aren’t so good that they would fool an expert…the public, yes, an expert, no.
The aircraft is either there or it is not. either sceanario involves the ability to manipulate huge numbers of people and massive amouts of money. If Ben really is that mega-wealthy he would not have ever been beaten to a pulp by Sayid, and Jack and Sawyer and…(Insert your pissed off Lost character’s name here) He would have dealt with the Losties and/or the freighter people in a much more efficient manner because he COULD. And what special effects company would you hire to produce it and how would you get them to keep it quiet once the story of the discovery broke. The kind of f/x work you are talking about, something good enough to fool an expert, is not something you can just cook up on your Mac desktop computer.
And if we are to believe the “note” that Sayid and Desmond got saying not to trust the captain, then that very captain, who acted baffled byt the ability of someone to fake the aircrash, is probably covering up the fact that the very people he works for are responsible for the staged downing of flight 815
They got the note from Micheal, who works for Ben, and who is against the Freighties to begin with.
true lockeko , but if the captain works for Widmore, he cannot be trusted. If he does not work for Widmore, he lied about it and sitll cannot be trusted.
We know that the footage of the wreckage did appear on tv so the question becomes who could have staged it. We know Widmore industries has the power, Paik industiries and possibly even a reborn Hanso Foundation with new corporate or U.N. backing.
We do not know if Ben has the resources so we have to go with what we know.
Occam’s razor (The maxim that maintains that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one) suggest that Ben is not the top contender as one who could have orchestrated the fake. I would put him third behind Widmore and Paik and in front of Hanso whom I would place fourth
I agree that it may not be Ben himself, but I think it very plausible, that the organization he works for has to be one of the contenders for groups that could fake the crash. This is an organization that can snatch people from their lives and take them to a secret island that only they know how to get to. I do agree that Paik and Widmore do also have the resources to fake the crash. I can even see Paik’s motive, but what about Widmore. Have we seen any reason for him to fake the crash? Remember Widmore has been looking for the island since at least 1996 when he paid big bucks for the journal from the Black Rock.