LOST-Theories.com

HELLO

Maybe Walter learned how to use his powers better

Sawyerlove - I think you’re right. It should be remembered that The Others only apparently learned about the existence of the Swan Station (and therefore the Pearl Station, by default) after the crash of Oceanic 815. This means they had no idea about Desmond (or Inmna, or Kelvin, apparently).

The only question concerning this I had was: was Walt allowed to use the computer and manipulated into typing the messages he typed, or was it just an Other posing as Walt all along to fool Michael?

I agree with everything you said Sawyerlove. I think it was an Other on the other end of that computer typing to Michael, who was being watched from the Pearl.

I don’t believe they didn’t know about the Pearl before the Crash, I don’t understand why that would have to be the case, as its clear that the Others were using it prior to it being discovered by Paulo & Nikki.

I think they knew of the existence of the Swan, they just didn’t know where it was. Having Ben get captured, and taken to the Swan was the only way for them to find it - to be led to it by the people that found it.

Upon finding the location, perhaps by other Others tracking when they led Ben back, they could easily have worked together by infiltrating it by being able to see its inside from the Pearl, and then therefore Ben having an accomplice inside to perform the lockdown which injured Locke, and more importantly put doubt in his mind about pressing the button, and revealing the whereabouts of the Pearl to further quash his belief about its importance.

Have to say that I completely agree with StayPuft, but willing to be proved wrong!

AC - may have missed something but how do we know that The Others only discovered the Pearl after the crash of 815? I thought the only reference we had to this in Paolo’s flashback when Ben assumes that Tom had left the Pearl’s door open (thus only telling us that they knew about it before Day 49). Happy to be corrected if I’ve missed something

Angelocomet,

At least on one occasion you can tell it was Walt because he typed stuff like, ‘they are not what they seem to be, they are lying’ etc. Unless it was yet another way of manipulation. Or Walt was using his telepathic powers which is quite unlikely.

SP - I partially agree. Once The Others discovered The Pearl they would have seen the Swan Station and yet not known the exact location of it. Thus Ben getting captured allowed him knowledge of its whereabouts (though I doubt this was his prime motivation).

The reason I believe The Others’ discovery of The Pearl is relatively new is entirely my own opinion. However, if they had known of it for a long time then they would have known about Desmond and Kelvin. (Seeing Kelvin disappearing for periods at a time would have surely aroused their concerns.) More concerning would have been the enormous question mark, visible from the air, that I doubt The Others would have been keen on allowing to be there. Not to mention the aircraft stocked up with drugs dangling over the cliff; would a control freak like Ben allow the idea of a heroin stash be potentially available to any one of his ‘people’ that happens to wonder over to The Pearl?

Just my opinion, of course - I could be wholly wrong (I just think it answers more questions than it creates by having The Pearl be undiscovered.)

I thought that it was probably one of the ‘Others’ posing as Walt when he was talking to Michael on the computer. But we know that Walt is ‘Special’ and that perhaps he was communicating using the computer. Also in the missing pieces episodes if you may have seen them, you see Juliet and Tom discussing Walt being a prisoner and an alarm is going off, also there is several dead birds around the place where Walt is being kept. Walt using his super bird powers could have found a way to use the computer or escape and contact his Dad. The ‘Others’ seem scared of Walt’s powers, so perhaps he has some conflicting energy. Walt is a weird one, and it seems that his ‘Specialness’ is more significant than we already have seen! Also, i think that Walt is very similiar to Ben as a child, the way they seem in touch with the island and also look for someone other than their father to protect them. Walt goes to Locke and Ben finds Richard!

I rambled on a bit then, probably doesn’t make sense!

AC - thanks for clarifying. The Kelvin angle is the only one that grabs me as suggesting that the Others didn’t know about the Pearl before, as (1) Ben probably didn’t expect anything to be able to actually see the ? and be able to report on it to anyone, and (2) Ben may not have known about the Heroin stash.

Don’t want to seem like I’m just trashing your ideas so one of my own for the other side: wouldn’t the location of the Pearl have been contained in the Dharma manuals and maps below the Flame? (assumes of course that the Others had read these but seems likely tht they would at least have looked at the maps)

Defo agree that the others were posing as Walt, made Michael even more emotional and easier for Ben to manipulate leading to the trap.

As for the Swan I don’t for a second believe that the Others didnt know its use or location. The detailed maps Sayid gets from the flame in ‘enter 77’ shows they must be aware of the stations. Plus they’ve been on the island longer with more time to explore and if you find a hatch and an orientation film you instantely know there are 5 others (E.G Film 5/6). Plus as a researcher you would be curious to see what else you could use of Dharma’s. (Why Locke, when he saw the map on the blast doors didn’t just walk round in a circle to the other hatches is beyond me). I think Ben wanted the button to stop being pushed but wonder why he didn’t do it sooner? He manipulated Locke and knew he would do it, so why wait until the plane crash to stop pushing the button?

DDJ/Cimmerian - The materials in The Flame station have ‘conveniently’ burst into flames, so the full details of the info contained within remains elusive. Sayid’s map was not of the entire Island so it’s not conclusive.

Cimm - The Others lack of knowledge about the Swan Station comes from the creators themselves (otherwise I probably would have assumed the same as you; that they ought to have known about it). I expect the reasoning behind the creators saying The Others didn’t know where The Swan was situated prevented awkward questions like, Well why didn’t they stop Desmond from pushing the button if that’s what they wanted to happen?

It should be remembered that The Others don’t care about Dharma. They don’t have any interest in what Dharma studied and what their stations were for. Where useful (Staff, Hydra) The Others appropriate the Stations for their own purposes; where useless (The Arrow) they ignore it.

The Others didn’t explore that much! They remained completely oblivious to the bloody great yacht moored in a cove for three years!

(It actually makes sense they didn’t go exploring around the Swan area; if they truly are nothing to do with the Black Smoke then they’d do well to stay out of its stomping ground.)

Good points about the Flame, Angelo.

As for the Swan: “The Others didn’t know where The Swan was situated prevented awkward questions like, Well why didn’t they stop Desmond from pushing the button if that’s what they wanted to happen?”

A real shame if thats the case, the more air-tight the story the better. You’re point about Smokie is valid, and would mean its not under thier control. However you say they’re not interested in Dharma. If a smoke monster type thing is on the island (Yes they’re protected by the fence but with the raids on the beach / visits to the Pearl etc..you would often go outside the fence system) I’d like to have an idea as to what the F it is. Ben, in all his wisdom would not leave an unknown element like smokie to its (hint) own devices unless its usless which it clearly isn’t as smokie is holding alot of Lost’s secrets.

Ben was completely surprised when he did find out about Desmonds’ boat. It seems obvious that Desmond and Kelvin would have discussed the boat, Desmond would at least have inquired about it, and thus the others would have known of its existence, IF they were observing the Swan from the Pearl. I don’t think they were. They MIGHT have known about the Pearl beforehand, but determined that some guy pushing a button was no threat to them, and not bothered viewing much, maybe send Mikhail around once in a while to to take a peek.

It’s more likely that the Pearl was a recent discovery which led them to discovery of the Swan. Once Ben discovered that people were in the Swan, he seemed interested in having them observed. He apparently wasn’t interested before (or he would have known about Desmonds boat) and that suggests it was because he didn’t know about their existence.

AC - i agree Sayid’s map is not conclusive. I tried comparing it to fan-made Island maps but couldn’t get anywhere!

Ozzig - Kelvin and Desmond couldn’t have discussed the boat as Des [we think] killed Kelvin as soon as he found out about the boat out at the cove. Then Des was Kelvinless and wouldn’t have spoken about the boat with him.

also, Sawyerlove - i meant to say +1 for starting/restarting the debate!

DDS: Des didn’t kill Kelvin on day 1 of their meeting. For some time, Des and Kelvin were roomies , and Kelvin would go out while Des stayed in, and Kelvin had given Des the impression that his boat was either not there or beyond repair. That was part of Des’s shock, discovering that his boat was there and was being repaired, Kelvin had lied to him. And his boat would have been one of the first things that Des asked about when he regained consciousness.

HELLO

YES :)

I’d have to re-watch the episode, but I think Des does ask Kelvin about the boat when he wakes up and Kelvin says there is no trace of it. So it’s just as likely that they didn’t talk about it that often (especially given Des seems pretty resigned to his lot until he sees the tear in Kelvin’s suit) so the Others would have to have been listening in pretty regualrly to have heard about the ship.