LOST-Theories.com

good points made about the plane crash. i don’t think it was the same plane at the bottom of the ocean.

Vega, I would tend to agree with your line of thinking on the staging and it would likely stand out to those who possess that kind of knowledge!

Nice thoughts!

Nice! I knew the plane was a cover up but missed the clue they gave us with the fish tank. Awesome and astute catch. +1

I would also add that the pilot appeared badly decomposed. If the plane had been on the sea floor in near freezing temps and no oxygen, the body wouldn’t have deteriorated that bad. A clue? don’t know, I could see a TV producer missing that fact. But, the body should only be 45-90 days old. There shouldn’t be really any decomposition at this point.

12/13 - The Oceanic 6 are Sun, Jin, Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sayid. Source: Lost Spoilers

Hi Mom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw the that scene to, which I always thought was funny because, all the newcomers seemed to question the wreck,

Even in the desert when she is readint he news papper her friend says how many languages do you have to read it in to belive it.

Plane crash was definatly staged the last episode enforced that, but some time warp thing is still possible,

vegarover i like your style.

Why would the plane have to turn upside down?

Although the introduction to your theory is based on a lead plane sinking in a fish tank, i’ll give it some kind of credence. One would thnk that a plane would mostly be torn apart by the water but were the producers were to depict such a scene, they would not be able to show Frank reacting to a body in a seat, which is crucial to the plot.

I still don’t think it was staged. I guess we’ll all see at some point in the future.

No doubt the Oceanic wreckage at the bottom of the ocean is staged. A diversion. But who could be propogating this diversion?

Charles Widmore must play a prominent role in this. He has the financial means, he has a tie to Dharma (as clues in the office scene in Flashes Before Your Eyes would indicate), and he has a tie to Desmond as well.

Whether that debunks the time altering theories is still up for debate. I’m new to this site and haven’t spent a lot of time studying theories, but ever since I descrambled Mittelos and found “lost time,” I’ve felt that there must be a time travel element in play.

i agree about the plane being planted… and a fake… that’s obvious…

WHY does a planted plane disprove time travel or some sort of a “time” factor in lost? explain?

Richard does not age! Desmond’s jumping back/forth future… was that made up

if the island was some sort of time bubble… it would explain there NOT being a plane.. i don’t know why when people think of time travel they always think of “doubles!”… why should there still be a plane in world side if the real plane did zip through some time/plane into the island…

Mortal, I would agree agree with your chain of thought, however, when it comes to “the time thing”, Wiki - “Minkowski Time” aka “Flat Time”, you may find it interesting and a satisfying alternative!

Vega, Judging by my watch I see that school is out, and the unemployed are just rolling their little lazy little hineys out of bed, because they have taken your theory, a decent one, and minused it to a zero! Accompanied, by the “Zero Tolerancy for Spoilers”, The Biatch” may have to start giving out a few slaps around here!

I have a model 747 plane that I have just dropped in my fish tank 10 times…and every time it flips over!

You’re right vegarover!

2 Dabi unemployed.. speak for yourself! did you just get up?

there are these things called computers and this thing called the internet, which is everywhere - even at work!

Namasté

How can there not be a play with reality/time/supernatural when Ben asks one of his cronies to produce “the man from Tallahassee” and within an hour Locke’s dad appears tied up and in a closet?

jonlaw-

As far as your body decomposition observation, I tend to agree with you. In fact, I just saw a special on the History Channel about the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, and they were able to find a body about 20 years later.

However, they also mentioned how so many factors contribute to body decay. For one, water temperature is a major factor. Also, fresh water vs. salt water makes a huge difference. Another factor is sea-life. There could be fish nibbling away at the bodies.

12365, You are new here, so let me explain something to you which is real simple, simple enough for even you to understand!

Shaddup!

Hey guys, I’m not saying that time travel/alternate universes isn’t happening on Lost, its just no happening in the case of the wreckage they “found” on the bottom of the ocean. That’s all.

Good theory Vegarover!

vegarover,

Given Lost‘s penchant for detail and clues, when I saw that little plane in the tank, I thought that same thing. Or at the very least, that Frank had been going over this scenario in his mind before, thinking of that plane at the bottom of the sea. Another strong piece of evidence for the hoax theory is that Frank picks up on a detail of the dead pilot that no one else did — something that the copycats would not have planned on.

As for the alternate universe theory — even Des’ travel is not alternate, really. Its just re-visited. If Des had done something completely different that caused, through some sort of chaos/complexity theory, a different series of events altogether than what we already know, THAT is an alternate universe. Like Back to the Future II is an alternate universe story. Lost just ain’t. That the Island is in a time delay or relativity does not imply that a duplicate plane, duplicate Jack, Kate, etc. was made and crashed. I don’t have anything against this idea, I just think there is no evidence that there was a split in timelines for the overarching narrative and for the survivors in general.

The real question is your last one: why? Why fake a plane crash? +1

For thoughts on the plane, consider this exchange from the episode “…and found.’

Sun is frantic and upset because she has lost her wedding ring. She tells Jack about it. Jack tells his story. He, too, had lost his ring and was frantic. He searched everywhere. Even took apart the traps under the sink.

Sun asks where he finally found it.

Jack’s answer: He didn’t. He had a replica made, and nobody ever knew the difference.

I always thought that this exchange was going to foreshadow something. Now I think I know what.

Sweet picture nicked…thanks for the photo evidence!

Great catch Quarantine!

Quarantine, I recall reading something back in S1 which is a bit bleary now, regarding the electromagnetism of “the island” , and its interference with metal objects. I think Sun & Jack’s wedding rings have something to do with that! Also, noted in the same information was the fact that all of the hairbrushes were missing too.

If anyone recalls exactly what that was about, feel free to elaborate.

I’m in agreement about the plane, the way it appeared on the ocean floor was too neat and parts too close together. And something about the weight distribution, the wings should have caused it to turn over.

Hey, how did this get ANY negative votes?!!? This was a great observation!

2 Dabi

what - are you still in high school? you part of some sort of gang where newbies can’t play or say anything…

i wasn’t aware that there was some sort of waiting period before i could post an opinion on someone’s post. The funny thing is that i agree with most of vegarover’s post excluding the bit about time travel, but i’m sure he/she is old enough to handle it…

i just don’t understand why you feel like you have to put down those that may not agree with something in a post.

so, relax….

Can’t we all just get along? =)

123165-

I don’t know if you saw my reply, but like I said, I’m not discounting time travel or alternate universes/realities on Lost. I just don’t think those are in play with the wreckage that’s on the bottom of the ocean.

Having said all that, for some reason I feel like that time travel, etc., won’t be the explanation of the mysteries of Lost because it almost seems like too easy of an explanation, a cop-out almost or weak writing.

Please understand that I’m not putting down anybody who thinks time travel is the culprit on Lost, I just think that Lost is too smart of a show to use that as a plot device.

123,etc As my comments were NOT directed at you, and were clearly directed at who I was making them to, how do you see that as your business to make nasty unwarranted remarks? Don’t think I will allow you or anyone else to go all “Rambo” on me!

Keep your personal observations to yourself, and if you cannot comment to me in a civil manner, as any self respecting MAN would, you need not make any more!

See, it’s real simple!

Dab…123…opposite corners. :) Hi, Dab, by the way.

Vega, NICE +1, my observent friend. Things to consider…this is coming from a 1 plane doubled person…the Sundra trench is one of the deepest places on Earth. Could it be possible…just playing devil’s advocate…that in its deep descent it filled with water while upside down and then leveled back around? Now the question is why is everything not crushed to oblivion? The plane and people should be crushed and not recognizible. I may have to change my stance on this. Thanks, Vega!!

RMJ out.

As for “why the cover-up?”, the simple answer may be that certain people didn’t want anyone to go looking for the plane. They wouldn’t want to risk people stumbling upon the island, perhaps. Just a thought. That’s what I figured when I saw the plane, anyway.

I also wonder if Frank picked up on your observations. He noted the lack of his fellow pilot/friend’s ring, but it probably took more than that to rattle his head.

wow…

for vegarover…

i was only responding to what you said

“There is no time-travel or alternate universes involved here”….

i’m not personally convinced of time travel myself yet. But, i don’t think it can be ruled out. There have been many successful movies and shows throughout time that included time travel in the plot. So, i don’t think time travel takes away from the story or the lost experience lost overall if it were true. In the end… no matter what movie… sci-fi or forest gump.. it’s always about the people… the human experience…

and regarding what you said here: “Please understand that I’m not putting down anybody who thinks time travel is the culprit on Lost”

don’t worry.. why would i think that… unlike “Rambo”… i have a driver’s license… there are people here that think lost is the garden of eden, some have port-hole theories.. or even that it’s all a dream…

what makes this show so great is that the writers have found ways to include all sorts of possibilities… and well.. it’s just fun talking about them all…

123165-

I just wanted to make sure that even though I’m not into the time travel stuff, I don’t want to insult anybody either!

I agree with you as far as the writers including all sorts of possibilities…it keeps everybody involved.

But even though I don’t think time travel is going on in Lost…like Dennis Miller likes to say, “that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong!”

+1 Good observation, succinctly put. This is a perfect post.

This is to jonlaw way up there near the top. The bodies didn’t look decomposed, just water logged and maybe nibbled on a little by the local fish. As for the Theory, nicely put. You would have to have a perfect trajectory of entry and speed for the main body of the plane to enter intact, even then the wings would be ripped clean off. Or maybe the pilot was just that damn good. HA!

But what about the bodies. The bodies and plane should be crushed. The Sundra Trench is one of the deepest places on Earth…the pressure would have mangled the plane and the bodies. There would be very little decomposition, as well. Not many bacteria and even fish live that deep in the ocean because there is nothing to feed on (knowledge gained from my BBC Planet Earth DVD collection…cool Christmas present).

That’s a good point about the pressure, they have difficulty just getting equipment to explore and photograph that deep. I’m not sure about the decomposition issue. You’ve got saltwater as a natural preservative and few organism to be doing the feeding, but from what I’ve read, deep oceanic floors are so no nutrient deprived that anything that makes it down there is consumed quickly, and bones (calcium ) dissolve quickly in seawater. I don’t think the real bodies would have lasted that long, so these must be fairly new. What troubles me is where they might have come up with so many bodies that quickly.

123165 : Dab’s first comment was regarding the drive-by minusing/etc that appeared to be going on, it had nothing to do with you, but you interpreted that it did and took offense and responded, so she took offense and responded, so you took offense……….All a big misunderstanding

great. you re definitely spot on

the only way to have any kind of time warp effect would be on the island itself, through darma facilities designed to harbor the wormhole caused by the cashimir effect. i think that is one of the main objectives of the island, it was said the objective was to change any of the numbers in the code, if you created and harbored a worm hole you could easily go back or forward and alter or rewrite any of it, and i also believe they have done that, being why ben and desmond have seen flashes, they arnt the future..they are the past.

vegarover, top notch post, great catch. No on could have done better!

+1 and look at that score now!!!!

make that no one could have done better sorry, I was excited!

How do you people catch this stuff!?

+1!!!

Wow…why is this even a theory? I am brand new to this board..but I think you guys are getting a little to LOST in all of these alternate time line theory posts. I thought it was patently obvious that the wreckage found was a plant….thats part of what Frank’s phone called confirmed because the pilot they showed was not the pilot that took his place…I totally agree with this theory…but…its really not a theory…its a fact…

I dont discredit that the plane was planted as being a viable theory, but I dont think you can link a toy airplane sinking in a foot or two of tank water to a actual airliner sinking in the ocean. it doesnt work like that!

Drop a model plane that weighs proportional to what a jet the size of flight 815 (im guessing a 737?) would weigh fully loaded in a tank that could acount for the depth of where it was found and I would guess you would find that it would not land upside down everytime…

just one example of a aircraft that sank, which you can see is obviously right side up….http://p38assn.org/images/surviving/water.jpg

Vegarover, I’m new here, but I thought the exact same thing as you regarding the model airplane in the fish tank. It makes sense to me that since the wings on that type of plane are set below the midline of the fusalage (sp?) that given time it would turn upside down while floating to the bottom. I have nothing scientific to back it up, just makes since to me.

As for why would the wreckage be a plant? It could be that Penny’s father has learned she has launched her own search for the plane and ultimately for Desmond. He has endless financing and pulled this off in order to end her search.

great catch! +1

+1

I really like this theory. I also don’t think that time travel is involved. I think instead that the island is running on a separate time line from the rest of the world. That would explain how Locke’s dad got to the island so quickly. What may take days or months in the ‘real’ world may only be an hour on the island. Also, remember the rocket that was launched from the rescue ship and when it hit the island the times were different? I think that the plane was planted to prevent the world from finding out about the island. Obviously Ben has connections to the outside world so whoever is in charge out there planted the plane once they found out about our crash survivors and all of the trouble they are causing on the island. One confusing problem for me is that the planted plane was supposed to have all aboard and accounted for—how do they explain the Oceanic 6 then in the flash forwards? +1!

Nice theory,

When I saw this episode it stroke me as odd that the same pilot who was supposed to be flying the 815 flight, ended up on the island anyways… But when you think that he made a call to report the mistake about the ring on his friend’s hand one might think that whoever staged the planecrash took him to the trip so they can dispose of him later, and leave no witnesses… Since Ben said (and I don’t believe he is lying) that the people on the freighter are coming to kill them all, it all adds up, I think… +1

I also noticed the little airplane model in fish tank landing upside down, and the right side up wreckage. But so what? Lapidus pretty much established, with his phone call to the Oceanic hotline, that the pilot body wasn’t real. Furthermore, we KNOW there were some 48 survivors, so it’s impossible for all the the passengers and crew to have been “confirmed dead”. So the wreckage must be a fake.

Its funny that oceanic staged it in the first place because when lost first aired,everybody thought maybe THAT crash was staged and everybody was frozen,then thawed out..yall remember that theory?i would think they would just say the wreckage was found and leave it at that..not actually show it.Which makes me wonder..where DID they get THOSE bodies from to stage the crash..and…if they were just cadavers they found,wouldn’t they be worried about somebody i.d.ing it?

Veefre is right. This is clear. We need to know more about Naomi’s boss to confirm that he was behind it. My theory is that he is another Ben and is trying to get his mits on the Islands power, keeping people in the dark with this expensive ploy until his objective is complete. He still has to deal with Ben though!

Is it just me, or did the cockpit not end up in the jungle in the pilot episode?? So this plane in the ocean is quite obviously staged…

Hi people,

I just have a quick thought regarding this post, it may have been already mentioned but I will say it anyway…..

If the Oceanic 815 wreckage they found was staged, and all passenagers died, how would they then explain the survival of the Oceanic 8? The survival of these people would then contradict the discovery of wreckage and show that there is some sort of conspiracy/cover up going on? Would the people who planted the wreckage then want to kill any survivors of the REAL Oceanic 815 flight………..if so are they the people on the freighter?

I have more thoughts to back up this comment but i’m interested in thinking what people think about it first?

The plane that they found will be explained away as either a hoax or as mistaken identity. Either way, when I looked at the episode where we got to see the ‘Others’ town, and saw the plane “crash”, why was the plane flying so low? If the flight had lost power due to the EMP or whatever anomoly it was that Desmond caused, the jet would have “lawn darted” into the water/island from 20,000 feet. I THINK that the plane was on approach. When the Other’s ran out of their houses, they didn’t seem overly surprised to see a jet over head. Ben said that there may still be survivors. If he didn’t know that there was a Jet coming in, he’d be like: “What the Hell was that?” But noone was. I think they were expecting flight 815. Or the island was…….

Its awesome that my post is getting so many comments…regardless if you agree with me or not, I love the fact its making you folks think…that’s the point!

Thank you to you all =)

They got the bodies of the staged 815 crash from the same place the traveling road show “Our Body - The Universe Within” gets them - Chinese $50 a pop cadavers! LOL

Of course, all the wedding rings were stripped off pre-sale so that’s why Frank is so mad!

In regard to a previous comment about the pressure being so great it would mangle the plane and bodies. Because the plane is open to the surrounding water (being split in half) there would be little if any deformation to the plane’s body. Granted, the pressure is great at that depth, but the pressure on the outside of the plane would be matched by the pressure from the water on the inside of the plane. As for the bodies, I have never seen a body at the bottom of the ocean, but I can buy that they would look somewhat like they did in the episode. Much the same as the plane, water would seep into lungs and body cavities exerting pressure to match that on the outside of the body.

I agree that the wreck was obviously staged, but I also don’t think that dropping a small metal plane in a fish tank gives any evidence to assume that a plane can’t land right-side-up in the ocean. I do agree that the two pieces would never be that close together, though.

How about this…. no duh…. ummm are we really trying to contribute “factual” consideration as to if and why the wreckage is a hoax? That which was shown on tv is a definite hoax… because we all know the plane is in peices on the island… and film crews wouldn’t be allowed by the Hanso and Widmore corporations to film this if it were really all underwater anyway because it is too near the island. They would instead pay for a staged scene… wow obviously. The only dispute here is whether or not when a plane crashes or is affected by the Pacific Triangle a shell or copy of the originial plane is left behind intact as the actual plane blows apart inside the bubble-world of the Island. This is where everyone assumes a new form of living, and body possibly in a way, where they are able to walk away alive from the crash. The only dispute here is if that wreckage is a time-warp shell or something like that… which is probably in all a wild tangent.

I agree 100% +1. I believe Ben had the power to make it so.

SolAura7, I’m with you on this one… As I was reading through this thread I was having a hard time understanding why people weren’t sure if the plane in the ocean was the real plane or not… as you said the majority of the plane is ON the island. Also, the pilot of the plane was discovered in the first season.

My money’s on Naomi’s boss staging it vs. alternate or duplicate reality.

Widmore planted the plane so no one would look for it and he could search for it and the island which he was already searching for, as evidence from thee 1996 auction. He also had the money to do something this large scale and knows all the details.

defo not the same plane, why else would the hairy pilot dude phone ocianic and then suddenly be on the fraighter? maybe cause the others or the other others (you know what i mean) were monitoring calls and picked him up???

Was I right, I was I right? lol

nothing should be believed to be “clear” on this show.

Good catch vega!

Well thought out and observant…… One question, however, and hopefully someone can comment on this:

If the plane was ‘planted’ (either by Widmore or someone else), how was it done? If I’m not mistaken, the plane is resting at the bottom of one the deepest undersea crevices in the earth, not exactly an obtainable destination.

Along that line of thought, the plane could not have been ‘placed’ at the bottom of the ocean using cranes or other similar machinery, etc. Thus, if it was indeed planted chances are it was ‘sunk’ and settled a great distance to the bottom of the sea. But If this was the case, then wouldn’t it have turned over and gone bellyside up as has been pointed out in this theory? But it DIDN’T……

So - if we think about the other possibility, which is that it came into the ocean at a great speed, would it not maintain a semblance of that projectory even underwater and remain rightside up when it finally settled? Remember, the toy plane turns over in the fishtank when it is ‘dropped’, but what if it is hurled like a missle?

What I’m getting at is this - doesn’t this theory actually prove that the plane really did crash and was not planted? I know that sounds hard to believe with all of the information out there lately about the plane being planted, but it is quite possible that the clue in the fish tank is actually a clue that the plane was NOT planted. Thoughts?

great theory and comments

While I think everything you said is true, surely its obvious that the wreckage at the bottom of the ocean isn’t actually flight 815 seeing as we know this to be on the island.

Since we’ve been told straight out that the wreckage is a hoax, I dont believe it’s as simple as that. They never tell us anything without there being some sort of a twist. Have you got an explanation as to why the wreckage would be placed in the wrong ocean? Wouldn’t this raise more suspicion than they would like?

I dont know what the answer is, but I think there’s more going on here than meets the eye.

The plane has got to be a split timeline, in fact I am toying with the idea that the whole world that the six go back to is not in the same timeline as the one they left during the crash

im sorry, but i dont really get it. it seems irrelvant whether the scene suggests that the staged crash was staged. we know it was staged, we’re told it is.

yes the plane crash was staged….. it is obvious that ben will do anything to stop the island from being discoverd… the plane was pulled througha time hole when dismond failed to push the button… so the real plane dosnt even exist in real time… that is why ben dug up all the bodies from a cemetary… to divert the search

ATTN HI MOM: JIM is not one of the 6, aaron is…he is still a survivor, he was in the womb during the crash.

and yes, we all know by now that the crash was staged, good eye on the fish tank clue.

i mean Jin, obviously….i hate this keybord

Good observation Vegarover and good link Quarantine - works twice as well as both scenes involve deception and a wedding ring…

I like this theory. I happen to believe this is oceanic airlines way of covering up a mistake of some sort. I don’t know what but explain the man who meets Hurley in the mental institution asking “are they still alive?” Which would lead me to ask what is so important that the oceanic 6 feels the need to cover it up with a huge lie?