The Oceanic Six HAVE changed fate
+2 6 Votes
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By seedy
- The Oceanic Six HAVE changed fate
- Created: Feb 5, 2008
- Last updated: Aug 13, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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I’m new to this, so apologies if I’m stepping on any toes. It seems to me that the two ‘futureflash’ segments we have been shown so far (or are at least aware of!) suggest that the Oceanic Six have returned to the ‘real world’ and somehow altered their previous pasts.
If we consider most of the Desmond-centric epsiodes, the message that comes from these is that fate is set, and that you can’t do anything about it. However, consider the three members of the ‘Oceanic Six’ we know about. 1. Jack - if Jack were given the chance to alter fate, would he ensure that his father were still alive (particularly bearing in mind what Sawyer told him about his interaction with Doc Shpehard Sr). 2. Kate - Would Kate want a reconciliation with her mother? This would require that Kate not kill her mother’s husband. Is this the ‘he’ she refers to? 3. Hurley - Old Hugo would want to ensure he never won the lottery money. There is no direct evidence that he hasn’t, but the fact that Mr. Abbadon is offering to pay for Hurley to attend a more swanky mental institution implies that Hurley doesn’t have the money to pay for it himself. Therefore, it seems that on returning from the Island, the world has changed for the Oceanic Six (in terms of their own personal history) - has the Valenzetti equation somehow been altered? How and by whom? What is more - they all seem totally miserable about the change i.e. we shouldn’t mess with fate, because ultimately the universe knows what it is doing! Is further evidence of this misery demonstrated by the coffin? Another member of the ‘Oceanix Six’ who may have killed themself because they were so unhappy with the ‘change’ - they are relatively healthy, so no need to believe they died of natural causes! Final sidenote - If fate has been changed, it adds further credence to the theory that the island exists somewhere in the past. For example, Jack’s father died prior to the Oceanic 815 crash, but is now alive post-crash! Such a change could only be brought about if history was altered prior to his original death i.e. before the crash. Therefore the island must exist prior to Christian Shepherd’s original death.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Hurley | Hugo “Hurley” Reyes | 2.18, 2.4, 1.18, 4.1, 4.12 | 556 |
| Jack | Jack Shephard | 1.1, 1.5, 2.11, 1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 3.9, 3.22, 3.1, 4.10, 4.12, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1451 |
| Kate | Katherine “Kate” Austen | 3.6, 1.2, 1.3, 2.9, 1.12, 1.16, 1.22, 3.15, 4.4, 4.12 | 711 |
Similar theories
| Title | Author | Cmnts | Votes | Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| jacks dad not dead | Beegrrl | 8 | 3 | +1 |
I really like this theory, especially picking up on Hurley not having any money. Although, the conversation he had with Bernard near the beginning of episode may answer that: he said that everyone will think he’s dead so the money will all be gone, and then he’ll be free (or so he thinks).
+1
Emzi’s point about the money is valid. I’d add that even if Hurley still had the money when he returned to the ‘real world’ he probably just gave it away. It made him miserable and he learned he didn’t want it.
Christian Shephard being alive in Jack’s flashforward is far from being certain. (The point Jack made, which I think you are basing this on, has been well-discussed and there’s all kinds of explanations (Jack being drugged out of his brain, for one) that indicates Christian was dead before the crash and remains dead in the flashforward.)
I absolutely agree that nothing is certain - but the most logical explanation (to me at least) is that Christrian Shepherd is alive. Jack may be drugged up, but at all times he is perfectly lucid. Plus I don’t remember his colleague reacting particularly to Jack’s comment about his father - you might expect him to if Jack’s father is dead!
For me, there seems enough evidence that things are not as they were in these sequences, and that none of the ‘losties’ are happy about it. Not only are they not happy about it, but they seem guilty about it! Kate is a survivor, hence why she is still in pretty good nick, Hurley tends to avoid confronting anything, hence why he self admits to the mental institution, and Jack (the control freak) is slowly going mad because he can’t do anything about it. And possibly one other has killed themselves - Locke? (he has pevious down in the ditch!)
Good spot on the money - the whole thing about changing fate and the future all links in - I think it was tharde who coined the phrase ‘fate benders’.
Don’t forget Hugo had already monkeyed with fate when he used “the numbers” and won the lotto. The guy who had been repeating “the numbers” in the mental institute said something like- “You’ve opened pandora’s box!” when he learned that Hugo had used them. And then of course, everything Hugo touched concerning his winnings was a disaster. I don’t think he was meant to win the money in the first place. Hugo’s past before the crash is one of the strangest, and is the most directly linked to the island - ie his use of “the numbers”.
This is very much what I had proposed and I think it makes a lot of sense, it explains the inconsistencies in the forward flashes. I think one of the big clues in Hurleys is that he is driving the once unfinished camaro. It makes be think he has some sort of make up with his father and they finished it and didn’t have money to buy something fancy.
+1 for like thinking!
Check my theory out
http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2008/feb/04/how-were-oceanic-6-bribed-and-/
I disagree entirely. First, Jack’s dad is not alive. He simply, in his depression made an off handed comment about going to ask his dad. He forged the prescription from his father’s office. He stopped them from calling the office because it doesn’t exist anymore. As for Hurley, he even said on the island that, if they thought he was dead, “they would spend his money.” Thats why he did the cannonball at the island because he would be free from the curse. Besides, we don’t know if he really lost his money as he was driving a classic car . He was committed because he wanted to be but that doesn’t mean he is broke.
As for Kate, she had never been convicted. Maybe she stood up and faced the charges and got off on self defense. Or maybe her celebrity status as being a survivor made her get off the hook, or the death of the guy hunting her down may have cut off the search since only he knew the details.
There is nothing to lead to the conclusion that anyone’s past was altered.
Of course, the producers can always prove me wrong ;)
If Christian Shephard never dies, or Hurley never wins the lottery, they never went to the island and they don’t know each other.
rubbish! Hurley has no money cause he was previously presumed dead so his money would have gone to whoever he nominated! Kate has been on trial and jacks dad is dead!
I agree jacks dad is as dead as ecko brother! They are just tools the island (or jakob) uses to lure the Losties into situations it needs them to experience. From the time Jack follows his dad to the caves the island has been the catalyst for major events by using the visage of a lot of the islands loved ones and friends.
i’m not positive about the laws regarding winning the lotto, allegedly dying, willing your money to someone, actually not dying and returning to civilization and then getting your money back. It had been about 90 days or so since the plane crash and him thinking he was getting rescued, I don’t think all of his money would be gone - even if someone inherited it. He made a ton of money. He would get a lot of it back when he returned to the US. When he had the discussion with Bernard it seemed like he was certain that he would have no money. I find this odd. i agree with the camp that thinks hurley has a lot more going on than we gave him credit for in the first couple of seasons. go hurley!