Thoughts on Characters and Time-Loop Theories
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By CrazyPolarBear
- Thoughts on Characters and Time-Loop Theories
- Created: Sep 23, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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I’ve been reading and thinking about the various ‘time-loop’ theories that people have been coming up with recently and while I’m not buying wholesale into the idea, after watching a number of episodes I have to admit that there are alot of occurrences that support the idea going right back to season 1.
Most of the occurences that seem to point to ‘time-loops’, seem to revolve around the characters of Locke, Jack, Desmond, and Walt. This may mean that certain characters have not been through the loop before and are here because something has been changed this time around to bring them to the island, as I believe certain people off the island are aware of the ‘time-loop’ and are working to change it’s course, for better or worse. (see my other theory - Getting it Right this Time) As Desmond has been covered extensively by other theorist I will focus on Jack, Locke, and Walt.
LOCKE
Locke’s character has had many instances that seem to point to ‘Time-Loop’s‘
In ‘The White Rabbit’ after Jack has gone off chasing his vision of his dad, Locke, Kate, and Sayid are debating who goes into the jungle to find Jack and search for water. Kate volunteers but Locke interjects saying ‘No Kate, your needed here. I’ll go, and besides I know where to look’
At first glance it appears he meant he knew were to look for water, but Jack is later led off the edge of a cliff by his Dad’s apparition and as he cling’s on for dear life, who should appear at the top of the cliff to pull him up, but John Locke! I think it may be possible that Jack had died that way in a previous ‘run through’ and Locke knew he had to be there at that time to save him.
In All the Best Cowboys have Daddy Issues - Locke says to Boone ‘It’s gonna start raining soon, It’ll take a few minutes’, then it does rain and Boone remarks ‘they teach you how to predict the weather at a box company?’
At the time I thought Lockes weather predicting abilities would be revealed in a future flashback, but three seasons on and no more info. I am now thinking perhaps Locke didn’t predict the weather as such, but that his trek into the jungle with Boone happened the last time around and Locke had a memory of the event?
In Deus Ex Machina - When Locke use’s the trebuchet and it breaks on the hatch door, Locke bangs on the hatch and shout’s ‘this was supposed to work!’
Perhaps it did work the last time around, but this time somebody has made sure the hatch door was stronger? I’ve seen a theory posted on this site which I tend to agree with, that Locke wasn’t meant to get into the Swan Station, he was meant to find the Pearl Station and his vision of the plane was simply supposed to point him in the right direction, but Locke became fixated with the plane.
In ‘Man of Science, Man of Faith’ After Jack orders Locke to pack up the dynamite and return to camp Locke asks ‘Why don’t you want to go down there, Jack?’
In that scene it appears as if Locke is implying that Jack already know’s what is in the hatch and that he is afraid of going down there as he will be forced to confront his past.
JACK
The Pilot - Someone has suggested that Cindy is aware of the time loop and is actively engaged in changing it, due to the ominous ‘here to watch’ comments she made in ‘Stranger in a Strange Land’ and also that it may not be coincidence that she gave him the extra drinks on the plane as he later used it to disinfect his wounds after the crash, could she have been making sure that Jack survived the crash?
In All the Best Cowboys have Daddy Issues - After Jacks fight with Ethan, Kate help’s him up and tries to make him go back to camp, but Jack say’s ‘No! I’m not lettin him do this!’ Kate replies ‘Not letting him?’ and Jack replies ‘No! Not again!’
Even as far back as series 1 that comment struck me as being odd, as Jack had never met Ethan before. Could he have been refering to a previous loop, were the same thing happened?
Also Jack later finds Charlie hanging from a tree, and revives him, could that have been the first time Charlie was ‘fated to die’?
WALT
A few thing’s which Walt has said and done could tie in with time-loop theories as well.
In ‘Born to Run’ Locke reassures Walt that he doesn’t think he poisoned Michael, Walt then suddenly says ‘Don’t open it, Mr Locke!’ when Locke asks what he mean’s he say’s ‘Don’t open that thing! Just don’t open it!’ and run’s off.
This could have been Walt ‘remembering’ that what happened as a result of Locke entering the Swan Station the last time around.
In ‘In Translation’ Walt burn’s raft and later explains to John that he doesn’t want to leave the island.
I think Walt may have been testing ‘course correction’, as after the raft is burned Michael simply builds another one and at the end of ‘Born to Run’ Michael tell’s Walt that they don’t have to leave on the raft if he doesn’t want to, but Walt replies ‘Yes we do’ as if he is now resigned to fact that he cannot escape his fate.
Boone and Shannon
This one is pure specualtion but hear me out please!
The event which put Boone and Shannon on course for the island was the death of Adam Rutherford, without which Shannon would never have had to con Boone in Austrailia.
What if the people trying to change the loop had, for some reason, fixed it that Adam Rutherford died? This would mean that Boone and Shannon were never ‘supposed’ to be on the island, and as some force seemed to orchestrate both their death’s.
Boone - Locke ‘mysteriously’ lose’s the use of his leg’s forcing Boone to climb up into the nigerian plane, which then falls, killing him.
Shannon - Follow’s a vision of Walt, straight into the path of trigger-happy Ana Lucia, and takes one in the chest.
Could this have been course correction in action? Maybe that’s why when Locke drugged Boone, he was chased by the monster and saw it rip Shannon apart, the island’s way of saying it want’s them both dead?
Well anyway, that’s about it from me, so if anyone else has got any idea’s about this subject, do let me know!
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| John | John Locke | 3.3, 2.17, 1.4, 1.19, 3.13, 3.19, 4.11, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1248 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1.5 | White Rabbit | 10-20-2004 | Jack | 144 |
| 1.1 | Pilot, Part 1 | 9-24-2004 | Jack | 366 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Jack sees his father on the island | 1.4 | 218 |
Key locations
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| The Swan station | 2.20, 2.23, 2.14, 2.17, 2.1, 2.2, 1.11, 3.3, 3.8 | 471 |
Thanks for the point, whoever that was!
I made a lot of - “oooOOOooo’s!” & “aaaAAHHhhh’s” while reading this!
You made some really good observations! They’re all speculative of course, but they are definitely worth entertaining!! I like what you said about why Walt torched the raft! Interesting!
I think Locke has the most evidence that he is in a time loop. Locke is one that I have consistently been shocked by. I’m like, “WHAT is he DOING?!!!!!” A lot of his actions seem so extreme! He goes to such drastic measures! Like blowing up the submarine! Which I was speechless after I saw that. And then,…….. “THE KNIFE!!”
Hii-Yaah!!!!
*Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch…..STAB!
Bluuuugghhh!!!……..collapse…….THUMP!
I thought, “Oh Dear! Locke is Crazy!!” But maybe his actions aren’t so crazy after all. I think there’s definitely a reason WHY he is doing these things. I don’t think his agenda is based on what he wants. I think his motives are right and that he really does have everyone’s best interest in mind.
Moving on….Here’s the thing!….We know Desmond sees flashes of future events. Well, I have wondered if anyone else has this ability. I mean, just because we haven’t seen it yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. To find out that several of them have either been there before or have knowledge of the future would be an interesting twist! I think that what we saw of Kate and Jack in the finale could be someone’s vision or flash of the future…..we’ll see.
Anyway, Good Job! I like it!
:-)
your welcome :)
Paintgirl, you bring up some great points. CPB I really like this theory just kept nodding my head while reading. good stuff
i found it strange when locke was talking on the telephone to ‘helen’ on some hotline call girl number and yet theres the helen he wanted to marry as well- ‘2 helens’
CPB..great to see all these points together in one theory.There definitely seems to be a destiny that is recognized by certain Losties.You mention Walts burning the boat and later admitting that they do have to go .The same could apply with the scene in which Sawyer is being tortured and Jack saying,” it doesnt have to be this way”,and Sawyer replying “yes it does”…This could be because the torture would lead Sayid indirectly to Roussoue.
The other thing I wanted to mention was the fact that Adam Rutherford died because Jack made the choice to work on Sarah when they both enter emergency together..Maybe Jack knew Rutherford was not going to make it ?
CPB you make some very good points. One thing that bothers me about this theory though is that it means that Jack & Locke not only have visions of the past/future, but that they are consciously aware of them to the point that they make open statements regarding the outcomes of events. Desmond seems not only to question his visions but he doesn’t seem to clearly understand the meaning of many of them in order to know how to act. Yet Locke and Jack are not only able to understand exactly what happens but they can hide their ideas, concerns and plans from everyone else. They don’t even seem to pause in deep thought where someone would notice. It just seems far too easy for them.
If Locke, Jack, Walt and Desmond are having these visions is it possible that all of the survivors are as well? As wtf suggested Sawyer has made statements that could imply his knowledge of events to come and certainly Rose “knew” Bernard was alive and that they’d be reunited and also about her cancer. I wonder if all of them are reliving events and are aware of it. Maybe it took a trip to the island to reawaken them and some are more easily able to accept them than the rest.
Great idea. +1 from me!
and from me +1
Like Kat, I’m not a fan of the time loop out of personal preference. But I have to grant you this, you’ve put together a great collection of evidence that is consistent with the time loop. +1
Let’s also not forget Ben. He seems to have a bit of this, as well, including his warning to John about “not getting to close” to cooper.
totally wicked… i am a fan of the time loop theory. Your observation on Walt is most def. a +1.
CPB: I agree with everyone else. You did a brilliant job, with this theory! I would like you to think along the lines, of Synchronicity as being the reason for some of the dialogue, as well as the deja-vu moments. I also believe that retro-causality is taking place in terms of changing the Valenzetti Equation. It would explain why certain losties have died, after fulfilling a short term purpose. And, if you further apply mind-travel, accompanied with “Minkowski Time”, it explains everything you have brought to light in your theory!
Awesome Job! +1
I love this thread. I’ve got another possible support. It explains why Sarah experienced her spinal miracle. If Jack ends up on the island after choosing Rutherford, and then in a loop he picks Sarah, course-correction would make things happen that would get him back on the island. Like magically healing Sarah’s spine and having a Nightengale effect. This could be another reason Jack is so unhappy in the flashforward. He knows Sarah is going to die any day. Maybe if Rutherford had lived, he would have caught Boone and Shannon being incestuous and killed them. which would mean CBP is right when he said Boone and Shannon dying on the island was course correction as well.
I have not posted anything in a while but thought i’d share incase others didn’t know. There is a new podcast from Damon and Carlton (from a week or two ago) where they state that the flash-forward in TTLG is really the future. I have thought about this and it seems to me that this sort of debunks the whole time-loop theory. The events on island are taking place and have not happened before. I’m not getting too in depth on this…maybe I’ll post some more complete thoughts in the near future. Just thought i’d share.
CrazyPolarBear: when I read a theory, I usually shake my head like ten times not agreeing with was has been said, and get angry when people start to +1 like mad because it has been posted by an “elder” on this board.
But reading your theory made me nod like 15 times, without shaking my head once… great theory, and I even tend to agree 100%. Makes a lot of sense. A well +1 diserved.
I have a question for you though: do they KNOW they are in a time loop? If yes, why are they not more open about it and talk to each other about what to do? Work in team? I actually believe they are not conscious about it, but it is all stored in their unconscious that guides them. What’s your opinion?
TheManBehindTheCurtain: I don’t see why the fact that ther flashforward is really the future debunks the time-loop theory? Maybe the time-loop has been broken in the future for some reason, and they cannot go back anymore, and that’s what makes Jack crazy.
Okay. In the first place from season 1 the reason they weren’t quickly rescued is because no one in the outside world other than those keeping the secret knows where the island is. We know from 3 seasons of show that they are on a mysterious island with strange scientific and supernatural properties. But it also seems that time is moving normally. Remember Ben showing Jack the footage of the Red Sox winning the World Series? That really did happen in 2004 and it happend while they were on the island. So to me right there it shows time is moving at a normal pace. Jack gets so crazy in the future because after all the time he has spent going against John Locke and everything he does, and fighting tooth and nail to get everyone off the island something happened that made him realize something.
I don’t know what it was and it’s probably because it has not yet happened in the show thus far; but once Jack left the island he obviously realized that Locke was right. He wasn’t supposed to contact that ship. Getting off the island means that he cannot find it again. Take note of all the maps and atlas’ Jack has scattered around his apartment. My guess is that whoever gets him off the island knew where to find it in the first place. Whoever that was also knows that its locale needs to be kept a secret. And the more I think about it. The time-loop thing doesn’t make sense. Because of the confirmation that the flash-forward is real it is makeing less and less sense to me why people are considering that these events have happened before.
We are seeing a story unfold and that story is moving forward not backwards. Even the flashbacks to take us back in the characters lives are there to give us insight on their former lives and to progress the story further.
CPB good work my friend. I am a fan of the loop de loop and think a lot of the points you have raised send me even further down that line.
xiv I’m interested in this idea that ‘elders’ get +1 automatically lol. I think its the opposite actually. Many ‘elder’ members of this board get -1 just because they are ‘well known’ as it were.
Painty special mention to you for best use of Hiiii Yaah within a post.
Really good read. I dont know if you are correct, but it is all definitely plausible. I also really loved the way that you took your time to explain your thoughts and how specific characters may have been more likely to have been through these loops. I have always thought that the Groundhog Day theory or parallel universes would explain many occurences in Lost. I love your theory.
CPB: +1 While not a fan of the time loop theory, in so much as they have to do it over and over again, I loved the way you tied it all together.
I do believe they’ve been there before and I don’t thing the Flash Forward debunks this in any way. It just means they will get off the island eventually. I think we all figured that out.
Good work, CPB!!!!
xiv - am I considered an elder? lol I wouldn’t say I was I’ve only been resgistered a few months! Do I get any special priviledges as an elder?
Seriously though, I think the characters who have been through the loop before are not always conciously aware (though Locke may have had things spelled out by Smokie and that’s why he seems the most aware) but I believe that at certain times stressful events or unique circumstances may put them ‘in the zone’ and memories of the previous loop return for a time, but fade when they calm down or things return to normal.
Anyone catch in the first episode when Juliet Says something about how there is no free will on the island??? This loop stuff makes alot of sense espeically your explanation added on Polar Bear. I hope its not the case though kind of silly.
The only time loops on this show are in a box of Dharma Initiative breakfast cereal.
Juliet never says there is no free will. She is hosting the book club and somebody criticizes her choice of book,saying Ben would never choose it. Juliet says something like, “Oh, I’m sorry, I thought free will still existed on this…” then the earthquake hits.
And, I agree. The only time loops on the island should be eaten in a bowl with powdered milk and water.
I can’t even begin to express what a bad idea this is, how flimsy I think the evidence is, and how lacking in warrant the former is re: the latter.
However, I am on anti-troll patrol, and I’m giving you a plus one.
That certainly was an eye-opener! I’m a big fan of the time-loop theroies as well. Maybe the loops have something to do with “the list” they keep talking about? How else would Ben KNOW that he would need John’s father on the island? Maybe it happened before so Ben knows that he needs to be there. Maybe the loop has been broken since the sky turned purple?
If you watched ‘the orchid’ video on the DVD, it sort of suggets a time-loop in a “timecop” sort of way. WIth 2 #8 bunnies that cannot touch each other. How about that??
Thanks!