(Group 1: The Other 48 Days) Contrasting Experiments?
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By jazprof
- (Group 1: The Other 48 Days) Contrasting Experiments?
- Created: Sep 18, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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in terms of behaviorism, am noticing the strong contrast between the experiences of the two surviving groups, so wondering if that contrast is set up by Ben or someone else to study the effects of different survival modes, or for some other purpose
— jazprof
I don’t have one unified idea here, but overall, thinking in terms of behaviorism, am noticing the strong contrast between the experiences of the two surviving groups, so wondering if that contrast is set up by Ben or someone else to study the effects of different survival modes, or for some other purpose. (Note in title the use of the word “Other”—this is the more “Other” dominated 48 days.) I’ve got three groups of observations—similarities, differences, and questions/observations about the possibility of various people as double agents.
Similarities: Emma, like Rose, needs to be resuscitated. Eko, like Sayid, finds it important to not abandon the dead. Nathan, like Jack, advocates for staying at a shelter that has a good water supply, food, and can be defended.
Differences: There is NO flashback for any chracter. Is this the first episode without a flashback? This seems of major importance to me. If the flashbacks are tied in some way to the possibility of revising one’s story—then the Tailies are given no chance to do so. Note that in fact Mr. Eko goes silent because he is back in a jungle having to kill people for his survival—repeating not changing his story. Is this connected to his death, and his statement that he refuses to confess because he only did what he needed to in order to survive?
One other point about Eko’s silence—the stick, the reference to the number 40, his inability to speak—>All allusions to Moses and the 40 years lost in the wilderness. Moses had difficult speaking—his brother Aaron often spoke for him.
Many more scenes at night & eventually they do without a fire entirely. Reflects the general darkness they seem to be operating in. (Note had difficulty seeing what was going on in some of the abductions; also once again only got to watch half, the rest is from transcript.) Bernard doesn’t have Rose’s certainty. This group encounters the Others from day 1. They have no doctor, no one who seems able to hunt, no medical supplies, many more deaths both from the crash and from attacks by the Others.
Double Agents and other Mysteries:
Cindy: says she has a good name for faces and doesn’t remember Nathan being on the plane. Says the same thing the Pilot said about being 2 hours off course (loss of hope).
Libby: tells Ana Lucia that Nathan creeps her out. And once he’s in the pit says that the Others haven’t come since Nathan’s imprisonment.
Goodwin: says he’s with the Peace Corps (Bizzaro world interpretation—he’s actually with the Conflict Corps). Is told by Ben that it should take about an hour to reach the beach but Ana Lucia talks about his clothes being dry 10 minutes after they crashed. Episode description from Lostpedia mentions that he was surprised by the finding of the Arrow station. Perhaps things being kept from Goodwin? Again noting the oddity of sending the doctors, Ethan & Goodwin, out as the spies and not one of the military guys.
The Others: show up the very first night and take Eko and 2-3 (?) other strong men; Eko survives. Has Goodwin already had a chance to get in touch with Ben? How? Or is this independent of Goodwin? One of the others that is killed has a list of 9 people to take that she is carrying—how would such a list help them identify who’s who? How could they match names to faces? I lost track of how many exactly died or were taken but it might be 4+ dead, 12 taken—do those numbers + surviving tailies add up. A lot of the others get killed in these raids—why is Ben willing to risk those deaths when he has Goodwin there? Is this all part of the behaviorism experiment?
Ana-Lucia: Why, if she knew Goodwin was one of the others because of the dryness of his clothes—did she ever imprison and torture Nathan?
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.7 | The Other 48 Days | 11-16-2005 | Eko, Ana-Lucia, Libby, Bernard, Cindy | 93 |
Good stuff. I think ana Lucia figured it out AFTER Nathan was imprisoned. I like the Cindy and Libby comments/observations.
I wonder if Ben sent doctors in case someone was actually hurt. Maybe the others actually did want to help them?
I think its of note how dysfunctional the Tallies are compared to the Losties and the difference in type of leadership. (ana lucia, th cope vs Jack, the doctor)
“Episode description from Lostpedia mentions that he was surprised by the finding of the Arrow station. Perhaps things being kept from Goodwin?”
I would say yes jaz, from Goodwin and many of the others that Ben “brought” to the island. The question is what is Ben’s reason for keeping things a secret?
Perhaps a test or experiment as you suggest?
That was a good analysis of the episode jaz. Plus one from me as usual. :)
One additional point about Cindy—she doesn’t remember Nathan, but never mentions not remembering Goodwin.
Yeah, Cindy not remembering Nathan but having no problem with Goodwin… that was odd. But with Libby’s odd statements as well I wonder if the writers were trying to show us the effects of hysteria or something.
I think it is odd that people were being taken from the beach so quickly after Goodwin got there. I wonder if he just had a radio or something and we never saw it.
Heh, you know kat, maybe he’s just a very old soul…he’s nostalgic for the golden age of radio,… or the serialized novel, …the handwritten manuscript?… the homeric oral tradition?… early human prelanguage use? Yeah, that’s it speechlessness.
kat, we ARE really that good,…and really that bad. :-)
OK…just be careful ‘cause with all of us in this straitjacket—one falls, and everyone’s goin’ down. (The mad version of all for one and one for all.)
Prof brings up a good point.
I thought of the possibility of a radio well, but then remembered that they left Othersville at a dead run to reach the crash sites. I suppose they could have grabbed them at a stash points along the way.
Maybe they used smoke signals or their telepathic implants. :P
If he had a radio, i think he would have kept it on his person to avoid any of the survivors finding it…..i would assume that Ana would have searched his body after he died and found it……just an assumption though
Good point little one…
Well, I thought about that also, munchkin, but didn’t it show her right after he was killed? Didn’t she just leave him?
Even so… I actually doubt he’d have kept it on him, but rather stashed somewhere for use whole he pretended to off looking for firewood or something. Ana insisted for a while that people go out in pairs, but I’m sure Nathan wasn’t the only one to defy that order.
As for when they got the radios… nothing saying they didn’t have them in their pockets before Ben ordered them to their respective beaches.
You whipper-snappers can make fun of Grandpa and his radio… but who’s gonna be laughin’ when Paulo’s radio pops up in some flashback? Hmmm?
C’mon gramps. They all carry a radio when they are within hollerin’ distance of eachother?
Is that just a precautionary measure in case Smokey drags one out into the jungle?
If Paulo is prone to packin’ a radio like the Others, than that there radio is six feet under.
Go back to your crossword puzzle you geezer! :)
i dont think it showed her leave. i believe she just shows up at the camp alone. he very well could have had it stashed somewhere. the list (which i think they said had descriptions too)…..maybe it isnt exacly who to take, but who to let live once taken. it seems that they are a lot closer to the others than Jacks group….perhaps it was just easier to take people and weed out who they needed later…?… if they hadnt moved inland and found the arrow we dont know that they all wouldnt have been abducted. the fact that goodwin doesnt seem to know about the arrow and that they arent attacked while there (perfect place for the others to corner them all) says to me goodwin didnt have good/frequent communication….long ramble sorry
If Goodwin were surprised about the station, he most likely told whoever about it in a report back to the Others. We know that the Others are aware of Mikhail Bakunin’s station, and via the surveillance in there, at the very least the Pearl and the one with the bank of television screens (Swan?). I don’t know if there is any indication that they knew about the Flame, but you’d think they would’ve taken those materials (false eyeball, hollowed out Bible with filmstrip, etc) if they were important, or perhaps the tail section survivors were meant to find them. False eye = Mikhail’s? Was he Ingman’s partner? Ad he claimed he responded to: “Do you want to save the world?” And Ingman and others refer to their work there constantly as saving the world. Also…I can’t create paragraphs for some reason…
Sawyer was the last one seen with Paulo’s radio.
And they weren’t within hollerin’ distance of one another before the ground started a-shakin’! And, shoot, folks is always a-carryin’ them crazy radios about these days just to call Paw in from the garage for supper!
Don’t you get a smart mouth with me, whipper-snapper!
doesnt mean goodwin knew…..he was brought onto the island, just like juliette, who has been kept in the dark before. even mikhail was in the dark about TLG. werent they only at the flame for like a day before his untimely death? i could be wrong.
sham—have to disagree on the Paulo’s radio—I really want Kate to have grabbed it off of Sawyer as it supports the whole Kate as Cobra idea.
So I agree with Prof…I’m just not as radio-active.
Goodwin does tell Ana that “Nathan was not a good person. That’s why he wasn’t on the list.” In other words it sounds as if he received orders to kill Nathan—that does imply perhaps radio contact. I’m reminded again—whatever happened to his body? Would it have been worth their while to retreive the radio or to keep it from falling into the hands of the Losties?
Goodwin’s body was left to rot as far as I know. Jin encountered it as he was with Eko looking for Walt.
hmmm…i think last we saw, his body was still in the jungle when jin and ecko come upon it.
Oh yeah, right. But no burial at sea.
Probably not germane to the topic, but I was thinking of whether we would see Ethan or Goodwin again (non-flashback style): I’m waiting to see how Mikhail is so hardy. He doesn’t seem to have any explicit special rapport with the island as do Locke and Rose and others, but he recovers from grave injuries with apparently no long-term effects. So, it’s curious thatt the Good Doctor and Peace Corpsman don’t, as far as we know, recuperate. I don’t recall how many times Pickett’s significant other was shot by Sun (I hated that character so I’m hoping many, many times) but her death seems incongruous as well.
Mikhail is hardy. Heh. Like mums.
Isn’t Prof awesome and cute?
Yea, I’m not afraid to say it!
Drats! Foiled again.
I was watching Looney Tunes before Prof was just an itch in his Daddy’s pants.
heh
Now, how is that a “good thing”, who knows?
virgin ears my…
Dude… how old do you think I am?
Wait… don’t answer that…
Daffy Duck rocks.
I’ll leave you with gem…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l8mWGCeBu8
Mel Blank was awesome.