(Group 1: Dave) “See You in Another Life”
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By jazprof
- (Group 1: Dave) “See You in Another Life”
- Created: Oct 30, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
I’m wondering whether whatever is making Dave appear and leading Hurley back into his past and toward suicide is opposed by Libby and what she represents (change), or whether in fact they’re working in tandem: a behaviorism test which depends on offering a choice.
— jazprof
One thing that caught my attention is that Dave says to Hurley (before going backwards off the cliff) “See you in another life” which is of course so close to Des’s signature phrase. And both of those phrases made me think of the way suicide keeps coming up as a theme—Hurley comes close here; other characters who’ve come close, Des, Locke, Jack in the flashforward, Sawyer kills Sawyer. Maybe a way they are all being tested (behaviorism) forces them to confront the past and then let it go (suicide) or if they can’t, they’re killed (Eko?). I’m not sure what faction it is that is testing Hurley here but I think Libby is part of the testing process—a fate bender (http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jul/13/fate-benders/)—and I’m wondering whether whatever is making Dave appear and leading Hurley back into his past and toward suicide is opposed by Libby and what she represents (change), or whether in fact they’re working in tandem: a behaviorism test which depends on offering a choice.
Some of the indications that this is a test:
1) Dave’s appearance coincides with the food drop—Libby comments on this—you destroy your stash and food falls from the sky.
2) The food drop also seems to be testing other Losties—immediate reaction of competitiveness and greed. Interestingly, Sawyer is the one who calls for order.
3) Dave uses the word “Dude” a lot—a sign that he’s part of Hurley.
4)The fact that Hurley doesn’t recognize Libby when in the flashback she is sitting at the next table over seems to indicate his memory has been tampered with.
5) At the end, when Hurley asks Libby if she thinks he really can change—she replies “Yeah, yeah I do”—but then gets a look on her face when Hurley turns away from her—a look that I interpreted as a combination of sadness and self-contempt. Then we get the flashback that shows her in the sanitarium. My reading of the look is then that Libby, in response to Hurley’s question, is thinking about the fact of her own change and the price she had to pay to make that change. I think the price she paid is becoming a change agent herself—and her assignment is Hurley. And I think she’s contemptuous of her own manipulation of him.
A couple of other thoughts: Hurley changes based on the belief that Libby really cares for him. Fear/Love again as the two change motivators.
Dave in the flashback often reminded me of Sawyer in his contempt for others—”it’s called dribbling not drooling.” I’m not saying that Sawyyer is then a figment of Hurley’s imagination, but rather that Dave reflects a side of Hurley he doesn’t show (his anger, his contempt for others) which is perhaps the basis for his bonding with Sawyer, especially in Season 3, and his attempt to get Sawyer to be less contemptuous and become part of the group. Just as Locke and Jack represent opposing forces, maybe Hurley is the yin to Sawyer’s yang—to quote the everwise Shamwise :-)
Sorry I’m an episode behind—had to work Saturday.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Hurley | Hugo “Hurley” Reyes | 2.18, 2.4, 1.18, 4.1, 4.12 | 558 |
| Libby | Elizabeth “Libby” | 2.7 | 156 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.18 | Dave | 4-5-2006 | Hurley | 135 |
Thank you Jaz for this - yet another reason for me to put off working, lol.
Actually this is one of my favourite episodes. The guy who plays Dave is excellent. When they take the photo and show Hurley Dave isn’t real, wow that was cool. BUT I do think that if Hurley really wanted to believe in Dave that he would have filled in the blank in the photo. In his head I mean. After all if he can do it in real life why not with a picture?
What you say about Libby’s role is very interesting because of course she plays a seminal role in getting Claire to remember her kidnap on the island. To my mind this would definitely place her in the ‘fate-bending’ camp. My question to you is do you think it possible that the fate benders are in opposition to the course correctors?
+100 from me.
Whatdoyoumean it won’t let me give you +100???
Thanks x100 mrsmrs :-)
Crucial question—yeah in a way they are in opposition but I think like all the other oppositions on the show it might not make sense to think of the dividing line as absolute. Instead of the course correctors and the fate benders both pulling in opposite directions with the character sort of as the “tug-of-rope” object between them—what if they determine two paths (fate vs. change) and their purpose is to maintain those options for the individual? I guess I like the latter image because it gives the character more free will rather than picturing them just as a pawn between the two opposing sides.
good stuff, jaz. nicely done.
good point +1 thats my first +1 :D
im on a terrible time now to write or think something, lots of work. but ill let just a small contribution to the other life thing.
“you´ll find me in the next life, if not in this one”
How do we know Dave isn’t real? What’s more real, a photograph or a rock being thrown at you that hurts? ‘See you in another life’……could refer to his relationship with Libby.
Great Post Jaz! as usual…..
While watching this ep the symbolism of the lost shoe, seemed somewhat significant to me. In the pilot we see the sneakers in the tree, and Dave loses his shoe that Hurley drags around while contemplating the reality of Dave. He then seeks meds as a security blanket. Hurley is also embarrassed by the ‘holding on to the shoe’ almost as if he doesnt want Libby to see his past, because he is shamed by it all. Libby on the other hand already knows his past and really seems to want him to let go. When Hurley is convinced that he can trust Libby and that she is OK with it all, he asks her if she saw the shoe. Did she in fact see the shoe and lie to him to soothe his desire to let go of Dave. I got the feeling that she was decieving him all along, and the shoe was a sign of deception.
BTW I REALLY like the Fate Bender vs Course Correctors battle. This could be the ultimate showdown. Change Fate and in step the course correctors. I LOVE IT!!!! Great Comment MrsMrs.!!
Libby’s role as a ‘fate-bender’ rather than a ‘course corrector’ seems a little compromised (in my view) in respect to her being the one that GIVES Desmond a boat.
But Desmond does declare he will race for love. And that brings me up to the nice idea you put here briefly: Hurley changes based on the belief that Libby really cares for him.”
I am reminded of Penny’s words, “All we really need is someone who truly loves us.” Apologies if that’s not wholly accurate, but you know the quote. And the point, which may be potentially developed into a theme, is that those who are ‘lost’ need only find one other to ‘save’ them.
Saying that though, finding Sayid to love didn’t exactly do Shannon much good. But maybe that’s because he truly loved Nadia. Hmm. I don’t like my own ideas here.
Libby, along with Rousseau, for me, are definitely two ‘minor’ characters that have scope to reveal a great deal about the workings of the Lost world should there stories become clearer. Is she really a fate-bender? I don’t know. But she’s definitely up to something. . .
Jazzamatazz, Very nice post, and observations! Great comments! +1
I always thought Dave was a figment of Hurley’s imagination, until “Cooper” was brought to “the island”, and now feel that he was indeed real, although the only explanation of the photo, would be that it was doctored.
If Hurley was heavily medicated, it might be the reason, for not recognizing Libby. I recall Libby saying she was a psychiatric nurse, but then appeared in the asylum. I am uncertain at this point, what all of that means.
What is clear to me, is all of “the losties” are being tested to come to terms with their own pasts, as well as their demons. All of this confirms in my mind, that “the island” does have healing qualities and mysterious magical powers that have yet to be explained.
Great post, jaz… and great discussion!
Libby helped Ana decide to imprison the wrong person while the tail-section folks were on the opposite side of the island. I mean… she didn’t seem to have a problem doing this, and nor did she show any remorse for getting it wrong.
But… then she died, so… ugh… frustrating…
Great post as per usual jaz…Interesting comments also.
thinking more about the suicide theme and connecting it to Jack’s fall of the cliff—Notice how many times this theme of needing to let go—to give up the self—is tied to to descent and the underworld (Tree of Life/Axis Mundi images). Hurley over the cliff, Jack over the cliff and then off the bridge, Locke being dragged down by Smokie then shot and landing in the pit of the dead. And often another person or vision of another is involved in this process: Dave, Libby, Ben, Smokie, Christian. Are they all version of the rabbit/trickster (heh, not evil—but a force of change, of destruction of the old) leading them down to the underworld so they can emerge reborn/changed?
Sayid’s friend, Radzinsky, Bea Klugh—all different—not just because successful but, not a descent or journey involved—just destruction.
Desmond—crucially different—He’s already underground when he “sees the light”—he and Locke acting as each other’s guides here, Des to lead Locke underground, Locke to lead Des back up. Does this mean Des is further along in the journey?
katrabbitnicity—at work so can’t check out the vid—but bunnies—warm, fuzzy, tricksy and clever—what’s not to love? They lead us into dark places, for their’s is the power and the multiplicity, forever and alternatively, amen.
Hey Prof, thanks for the reminder about Libby amongst the Tailies—yeah what she did aided and abetted Goodwin, as did Cindy. That would seem to put her in the Other’s camp, but other things like getting Des the boat seem to indicate she was with Widmore or Dharma. I’m thinking again that these factions may sometimes be acting in concert or perhaps using different means to the same end?
You want to bet that not all bunnies are evil?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kNL08oYkJJ0
mrsmrs—actually have to go with miss inicity there—donnie darko bunny not really scary. He actually leads him to do the right thing, yeah? save the world in fact by sacrificing himself?
katskala—I’m thinking again, it ain’t called the hatch for nothin’—Des emerges bloody and naked, like a baby does in fact. Eko inside a cave—not fully born then? Locke’s inability to speak—he has to go through the sweat lodge experience, so a second birthing. In fact—this was a second suicide for Des—but unlike the first more along the lines of self-sacrifice so interesting that it seemed to have the most profound change on him—he emerges here in that stage (I think from Campbell) where he has the power?
Relation to past—first thing that happens to Des is immersion into that past and he is forced to separate himself from it—to give up Penny in order to be the hero. Maybe that’s the stage Jack is at in the FF?
Another guy with a giant rabbit. I love Elwood P. Dowd:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IYU6mSIF8ww
crap +1 :)