(Group 1: The Hunting Party) You’re Not the Boss of Me
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By jazprof
- (Group 1: The Hunting Party) You’re Not the Boss of Me
- Created: Oct 2, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
is there some device that influences dreams when you sleep in that bed?
— jazprof
Not sure if there were any revelations but there certainly was a central theme in the idea of telling people what they can/can’t do. Before spelling that out, I wanted to mention the most interesting thing I got out of doing a little research—I looked up some of the terms Christian mentions when he’s examining Angelo’s x-rays—Christian says there could be ischemia (lack of blood flow) because of extra dural growth. “Dural” is short for “dural mater” which is the name for the membrane covering the spinal column and the brain. It literally means “hard mother” (or should that be “hard mothah”—”dural” could be my new ninja identity, heh). That just seemed a possibly odd connection between parenting issues, reproduction issues, possible brain manipulations, and the spinal injuries.
One other thing I noticed was that Jack looked like he was sleeping in the same bed that Sawyer had been in “What Kate Did” when he spoke as Wayne (and presumably the place Des slept). Jack’s flashback of Gabriela and Angelo (both angelic names—anyone know if “Busoni” means anything?) was presented almost as if Jack had dreamt it—he wakes up out of it. So question is—is there some device that influences dreams when you sleep in that bed? Caused Jack’s dream which was the FB, and Sawyer thinking he was Wayne?
Telling People What They Can/Can’t Do:
Locke says “Who are we to tell people what they can or can’t do?”
Jack either tells people (especially Kate) what to do—or he is told by others. Tells Kate to stay behind. Sawyer implies it’s because he’s po’d at her, not because he’s trying to protect her. He seems to be right. Parallels Jack/Kate to Jack/Sarah dialogue:
Kate: I’m sorry. Jack: Yeah, I’m sorry too.
Sarah: I’m sorry Jack: Yeah, me too.
Kate says to Jack, “I made a mistake” Jack says the same thing to Sarah. (Overall Jack shows a strong tendency to repeat his past—hard on himself, hard on others).
Christian tells Jack there’s a line he shouldn’t cross. Mr. Friendly says the same thing.
Jin says “I don’t like being told what to do.” Sun replies “Being told what to do was my life for four years, I didn’t like it much either.”
Sun asks Jin to stay—unlike Kate he does. Telling people what to do doesn’t work. Jin stays because Sun talks about needing him and he loves her. So telling Jack there’s a line he shouldn’t cross—maybe that’s Benipulation speak for getting him to do it?
Mr. Friendly says “I come in peace”—where have I heard that before?
A lot of “Mr.s”—Mr. Clean, Mr. Friendly, Mr. Locke
Sawyer—motivation is payback for getting shot. It suddenly occurred to me that Sawyer’s story could have Hamlet parallels—mother sleeping with the murderer (or man responsible for the father’s death), killing the wrong person first (Polonius), then after all the time thinking about it and planning kills in a moment of passion. So I guess Sawyer could either be the tragic revenge hero or the romantic hero.
The exchange between him and Kate at the beginning where she throws a banana at him (instead of a rock) reminded me of the earlier scene when he comes out of the water naked and she’s carrying the whole bundle of bananas. Somtimes, these writers are sooooooo subtle…….not. :-)
If Kate didn’t refuse to be his nurse here and change his bandage the numbers would probably not have been entered in time.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jack | Jack Shephard | 1.1, 1.5, 2.11, 1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 3.9, 3.22, 3.1, 4.10, 4.12, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1460 |
| John | John Locke | 3.3, 2.17, 1.4, 1.19, 3.13, 3.19, 4.11, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1248 |
| Kate | Katherine “Kate” Austen | 3.6, 1.2, 1.3, 2.9, 1.12, 1.16, 1.22, 3.15, 4.4, 4.12 | 714 |
| Sarah | Sarah Shephard | 108 | |
| Sawyer | James “Sawyer” Ford | 3.4, 2.3, 2.6, 2.13, 1.16, 3.10 | 455 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.11 | The Hunting Party | 1-18-2006 | Jack | 70 |
Cool beans Jaz. The thing that leapt out at me is that the word Mr is supposed to convey respect but in this episode it seems to embody the opposite. Um not explaining this very well but its like the word is being used to hammer home the lack of respect.
Interesting parallels between the people who slept in the hatch bed as well. I don’t know what to make of it though.
+1 look forward to reading the rest of the comments!
HI, i found out what group 1 means! huzzah!
I’ve re-watched season two and three over the summer, and now i’m starting over with season one with my roommate because he wants to get involved.
I really like the thing with jack and saywer sleeping in the same bed, BUT let’s not forget that desmond also must have slept in that bed. ????
I missed the “i come in peace” bit though. Where HAVE we heard that before? Ben??
Oh, and dural is the best nickname ever. If i ever become a rapper, i’m stealing it.
Hey JackJnr good to see you in G1. Its like the G8 but waaaaaaaay more important.
Yep Des was in the bed too. Oh dear, coming over a bit faint. Must. Sit. Down.
In the first few moments of season 2 we see Des jump down from the top bunk. hmm…
Great post! Finally, a post worthy of my comments! ; )
mrs.s.—LOL—I think you mean “lie down” don’t you? :-)
temporal anomaly results in Jack, Sawyer, & Des all in same bed at same time—add (your name here) :-)
JJr-the “I come in peace”—wasn’t from the show; I just know I’ve heard it before. It sounds like something an alien landing on earth would say—possibly it’s from “The Day the Earth Stood Still”?
Good thoughts as always, jaz.
waves at Hex
Long time no see brutha.
Jaz! Stop it. I only just managed to get up again :-)
that’s true, i think des jumped from the top bunk. Maybe it’s a bunk bed of giant……time….loop… BLAH sometimes i get fed up.
Ack ack ack ack! Don’t run! We are your friends!
good thoughts jaz.,this episode is something i’ve watched over and over again this is because i’ve read somewhere probs in lostpedia that ‘smokie ‘is an episode shortly after the 23rd psalm but we wouldn’t recognise it- well i find it exciting to try and guess who/what could be smokie so i paid attention to any new characters etc my findings so far are angelo /gabriele busoni and when we were first introduced to henry gale.
lol. i’m not running anywhere. But i am going for a walk to get away from my computer and ponder lost.
Sorry, JackJr, I was throwing some “Mars Attacks” quote related to the “I come in peace” line jazzie commented…
haha that movie is retarded.
Nice observations, Jazzie! I don’t know what to make of the bed thing, but I have wondered about temporal lobe issues. Nice +1
kat-nnection, heh, that is probably the last place I heard it :-)
But could Season 2 Lost be quoting Season 2 Heroes? If one buys the time loop theory I suppose. :-)
Very interesting jaz +1
jazzie: I googled “Busoni” and found this Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferruccio_Busoni
He doesn’t seem to have any relation to the show; however, his quote “Music was born free; and to win freedom is its destiny” ties in with the freedom-of-choice vs destiny theme. Besides, the fact that his first performance was one of ‘Stabat Mater’, loosely linked to ‘dural mater.’
Of course, I’m reading too much into this, but I was curious.
Putting the previous “trivia” aside, there’s at least one curious thing about this episode. First flashback, Jack is caught between his sense of duty —his compulsion to fix things— and his lack of faith in miracles. I’m guessing his previous success with Sarah would make him more “open minded” about the possibility of fixing things by means unexplainable for him —at least, at the moment.
But I think there is something more, just another compulsion: the need to prove his father wrong. I know he says Christian is “absolutely right”, but after Gabriela insists, there is no doubt about his answer. He just takes a moment to evaluate the situation, and then accepts.
Second flashback, though, shows the doubts. But then Gabriela presses the matter, and gives him a “hint”: she doesn’t believe in miracles. Surprisingly enough, Jack’s answer is “I’m not too sure about them.” Not the matter-of-factly Man-of-Science’s “there is no such things as miracles” one would expect from him, right? Counter-balance: Sarah starts to hint miracle-working may not be such a great thing…
… and, in the end, it isn’t. Jack couldn’t make the miracle, and the price of trying was his marriage. I suspect that was enought to put Jack back on the Man-of-Science track…
This whole “I come in peace” thing has me wondering now…
Could the Others be aliens from outer space? Is there a reason why that could NOT be possible?
Doesn’t Ben kind of act like an alien?
“I come in peace” was a 90’s Sci-Fi flick about a very hard to kill alien that steals human endorphins which are a narcotic on his planet.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1800142685/info
Nice job as usual Dural. Yet more material for your upcoming book.
Does your ninja alter ego Dural smoke Dorals?
Hmmmm, Interesting thoughts, Occam! So, perhaps Sarah was/is the reason why Jack is so jaded when it comes to having faith.
It reminds me of that saying, Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it!
Maybe, something will happen to Jack on “the island”, that will restore his faith!
dabiatchishere: In my opinion, Jack’s failed marriage is a pivotal point to his life. And it is strongly related to faith, or rather to miracles. He meets the woman who will be his wife as the result of a “miracle” working against all odds. And he loses his wife as the result of a “miracle” that didn’t work, against all hopes.
I see Jack as sort of stubborn, and a bit narrow-minded. He’s a Man of Science carried to extremes, denying every possibility of “magic” or “faith”. Is something is unknown, it is just that: unknown. There is an explanation, it’s just he doesn’t know it yet.
Sarah’s is the only “miracle” in his life which he seems to accept as such. And it somehow changed him, making him open a bit his mind to accept there might be unexplainable things that, somehow, had to work. Anyway, I doubt he would hace accepted Angelo’s case if his dad had been willing to proceed with the surgery. His confrontation with his father would have weighed more than his grain of faith.
Angelo’s death must have been sort of a shock for him. It was the proof of his error: miracles didn’t really exist. But there was yet another proof for him, and that was final: his “miracle” marriage was broken that very night.
I don’t see what could make Jack change again his point of view about faith or miracles, except what we can infer from the alleged flash-forward: he realizes he’s been wrong again and wants —once more— to fix things by going back to the Island. Maybe —but that’s something we’ll have to discover, if it happens at all— part of his “revelation” is the fact that he should have had more faith…
Occam: Brilliant observations! You hit the proverbial nail on the head, with that assessment!
I agree that is why he wants to go back to “the island” for those very reasons, and like you, don’t know if we will ever see Jack rise to the occasion. He seems to be very rigid with his thinking. Even the hard case of the man, we love as Sawyer has shown an understanding of himself and his demons, and has demonstrated his softer side!
You should really present a theory on this! I would love to read it!
BTW: My peeps on LT, refer to me as Dab or any other silly abbreviated form that suits them, at the moment. Please feel free, to do the same!
LOL! Listen, HotKatInTheCityBitOfADittyBabyButIt’sAllGoodAllOfTheTime!
Call me anything, but a “coward”! Gotcha!
So, it’s official, OckieDokie!
Post It!
And, they will come!
Occam I concur with dab n kat. And I think Stabat Mater could be relevant to your idea as well (short for Stabat Mater Dolorosa—the grieving mother—the Virgin Mary), Stabat Mater—miracles, dural mater—hard facts.
And sham—don’t need artificial creation of smoke—those ninja moves are so fast I just create my own smoke :-)
Oh, okay, Jazzamatazz! I thought it was somebody, well you know, blowing smoke up my, okay, never mind! My misunderstanding! lol!
Sorry, people, I don’t think my comment merits a full-fledged theory… thanks for the cheers, however ;-)
jazzie: Unfortunately, in case both Lostpedia and Lost-TV are right, Angelo’s surname was Bissone, not Busoni… and then Stabat Mater would be out of the equation.
….aaaaaaand I killed the thread. Again. I’m getting this strong déjà-vu feeling… :-)
Hey Occ—nah you didn’t. I did double check Lostpedia and the cast credits do list the name as “Busoni”—so I think it’s still a possibility.
Oh… well, I didn’t check Lostpedia’s cast credits, only the transcripts. I guess your source is more accurate. At least, I hope it is, because I really like the ” to win freedom is its destiny” paradoxical quote and I think it is really applicable to the show.
….aaaaaaand I killed the thread. Twice, in this case. Maybe this is a Mikhail-type thread? X·D