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I commented on the other post about this question as well. Why does God (all the disclaimers you applied above count for me as well) have to see people? If god exists, does it necessarily follow that human existence has to be validated by god? Maybe he can’t see lots of things because he’s not omnipotent.

I don’t know (maybe god doesn’t either) but I do appreciate the discussion of this comment of Locke’s - I had missed it the first time around. +1

Yes, I saw you there and responded there.

The short version is that gods were created to explain the natural world. So we had thunder gods, fertility gods, gods of the seas, etc. When the Jews invented monotheism, that was a huge step, theologically. Gods had to explain and be responsible for the natural world, and each had his or her little fiefdom. Now the Jews come along, and they insist on ONE BIG honking GOD. Well, that god has to do what all the others used to do. Their one god has to be the god of thunder, the god of fertility, the god of the seas, etc all rolled into one. Their one god had to have power over everything. Literally omnipotent.

Monotheism, obviously, became the dominant god concept. So, even though christians want to cut their god into three, and still call it one, and even though catholics want to go back to having minor deities for everything (by exercising a loophole and calling them “patron saints”) the ONE BIG GOD theory is still technically in place.

So, the modern definition of god, pretty much requires omnipotence. In fact though, I think we are actually discussing the god’s omniscience, but I think the reasoning is the same.

I don’t think Ben literally meant God can’t see the island, I think Ben may have been implying that the physical laws we take for granted don’t apply on the island, but I think his main aim in the conversation was to distract Locke from asking questions about the Others.

Ben also contradicts this statement by telling jack that ‘I was diagnosed with a tumour on my spine, three days later a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky, if that’s not proof of god I don’t know what is’

Ben is a self-confessed manipulator and I thinkj he was just talking about God to achieve his ends in both cases.

good point CPB - if God can’t see the island then how can he send a spinal surgeon to it. more benipulation

ben doesn’t strike me as a believer in any conventional religion. possibly he referred to two different gods? the christian god first, then his own later…

i think that his beliefs are quite closely paired with… dare i say… “the more positive aspects of naziism”.

i thought lockes scene in the pit was very reminiscent of old war films, so followed up with some documentaries on nazis and mayans, and formed a loose understanding… i’ll post it seperately though!

i read something about the whispers and the black rock (but not the ship). apparently the lava, from the volcano of the distant past, now covers large spaces on the island and has an unusual property.

i don’t know the specifics but it seems to have similar properties to the magnetic tape used in cassettes and videos. could the islands magnetism have somehow “recorded” these souls? it seems to be mostly around “the dark territory” that the whispers are most prevalent (apparently)

i know, that sounds wacky without explanation, but you never know!

Quarantine - your explanation above is very good but it still applies a subjective description to god. Omniscience (thank you) and omnipotence are qualities we attribute to god for a variety of reasons, not least because it’s comforting. Those reasons don’t make it real and with all due respect (for god, I really don’t want to offend anyone) there’s evidence to suggest god not only doesn’t have a clue but can’t help us either. I don’t think that Locke was talking about god’s limitations though, I think he was expressing a sense of desolation and despair - of the existential lonliness of existence on the island.

Thanks for your kind words on the other thread and ouch, you were right, I’ve expressed myself better. I’ll save those thoughts for another time and place when I can do a better job of making myself understood.

This quote is way too vague to really know for sure, there are 1000 different angles to consider.

Maybe Ben wants people to believe they can’t get off the island.

Maybe the line is just to imply how ‘off the grid’ the island really is and how ‘lost’ the losties really are.

Maybe the line is the writers’ way of telling us that religion is nothing more than a supplemental influence on the plot and characters and will do little to explain the show when it’s all said and done.

Maybe Ben was implying that the island is God-less and that it truly is Lord of the Flies, every man for himself.

Most likely, in my opinion, is that Ben was trying to get Locke to lose faith in the source/voice/will-of-the-island that has been leading Locke around. The quote might’ve suggestively contributed to Locke letting the hatch explode, and Ben lying to Locke about entering the numbers is a secondary act that proves Ben wanted Locke to screw up.

Quarantine, I really enjoyed your post! Very nice work! Well Done! +1

Some very interesting comments, and I agree that Ben manipulated those comments, however it doesn’t detract one iota from Quarantines theory!

KatOnAHotTinRoof Your words are eloquent, as usual!

Kat how did you take this quote and make it about time travel lol

I can’t wait to see the episode titled: ‘God the creator of all could not see his creation and all the souls which would be attributed to said God float around a place whispering where God can’t see or hear them’

Sheer brilliance Quarantine!

That’s an interesting theory you got there. Who knows? I used to think that maybe smokey was a cluster of souls of those who died on the island. At least the one’s who didn’t have a clean soul. The smoke being black symbolizing that.

Think you may be on to something! What if Santa Claus can’t see the island as well! Oh My God…what about the Easter Bunny. This is more serious than I thought!