Turn the Key: An Argument For A Boycott
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By WillsDad
- Turn the Key: An Argument For A Boycott
- Created: Nov 14, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 2.22: Three Minutes
- Status: Retracted
- Flag this theory:
There has been a Hostile incursion. Time to turn the key.
— WillsDad
We have complained about the trolls. We have suffered under them. But we haven’t DONE anything about them. Until now.
I came to this site to have some fun, to exchange ideas, and to meet cool people. Mission accomplished.
Lately, though, we have all noticed that the fun is on the wane. The cockroaches are overrunning us, and we lack the tools to fight back.
Let me review what has been happening lately:
At least one of the cockroaches went and signed up for a slew of unimaginative user IDs. There is no limit to how many one cockroach or person may have, apparently.
The site was designed as a marketplace of ideas. The scores woul quickly give us information on what ideas were being accepted, and which had fallen to the dust bin of history. The cockroaches have taken this tool away from us. By doing multiple drive-by dings, the scores are meaningless. Some people are fine with this, I am not. I like a society and a community where the cream rises to the top. I like the idea of going to a top-rated theory and being inspired by it. I like the idea that I can skip the low rated theories and avoid the 4,815,162,342nd version of “I think it’s weird that Jack fell in the jungle…”
The cockroaches have taken away our self-policing tools. We could classify a theory as obsolete, debunked, not a theory, etc. This tool has been used as a weapon against us. There are now more than a dozen perfectly legitmate theories sitting in “debunked,” “offensive,” and, ironically, “trollish.” The most insightful idea on the entire internet will never see the light of day sitting in the troll bin. I have a problem with that, and you should, too.
The cockroaches have started to appropriate our identities. There is, as I write this, an ersatz WillsDad on the loose. The cockroach in question even posted a theory; a cut and paste of a very highly rated theory. The genius part, was this: it then appropriated another identity, and took “me” to task for the cut and paste. The cockroach has also posted comments here and there which are, shall we say, crude. Because it is unfamiliar with educated discourse, and the fundamentals of grammar and punctuation, most regulars here realized that the offensive stuff wan’t me. But still …
There is no higher authority here to whom we can appeal. There is no moderator, there is no committee. This allows the cockroaches free reign. These are the kids who threw the erasers when the teacher left the room. These lower animal forms operate out of instinct, and have no ability to govern themselves. And we lack the tools to govern for them.
Given all this, I am proposing a strong measure, I propose a boycott. I know, I know, my hands start to shake, too at the thought of going cold turkey from Lost. But I think it is necessary. Some fundamental changes are needed to restore the fun here. I would suggest the following:
More options on the flags. There should be a way for people to indicate that a theory is NOT obsolete, that it is NOT trollish, that it has NOT been debunked. A voting system where only negatives can be voted seems fundamentally flawed.
People should be required to comment before voting. Even if the comment is a blank space, we will know who did the voting. We will also quickly learn whose opinions count, and whose do not.
Multiple users with the same name should not be possible. I should not have to introduce myself as “the original WilsDad.”
Creating a second ID should be impossible, perhaps linked to our IP or something. We need some kind of firewall to protect us from the cockroach disguising itself as 12 other bugs.
A moderator, or in the alternative, an appeals process.
I propose Saturday, noon EST as the beginning point of the boycott.
The owner of the site has our email addresses. We will come back en masse when he sends us confirmation that our concerns have been addressed.
I know this is dramatic. This place has quickly become “home.” I’m going to miss it. But if my real home was so overrun with cockroaches that even the exterminator ran for the hills, I’d leave my real home, too.
I know that this is going to be put into “trollish” or some such in just a few minutes, so I commit to put a link to in the comments to other theories.
If anybody supports this, and I hope some do, I hope you will post some ideas for other web sites where we can all meet, and continue to share each other’s ideas and company.
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.21 | ? | 5-10-2006 | Eko | 184 |
Wills, I truly feel your pain. I really do..but I really doubt that any of this will be adressed by the administrator. I happen to know that he would rather shut the site down altogether rather than have to police/moderate/adjust it. I know this is a shame but he has said as much when a select few of us petitioned him via e-mail on the same subject. To be honest, I tend to agree with him - this is a self-governed site. If the troll(s) have taken over for now I think that we will have to just take it until it (they) get bored. I firmly believe that once the new season starts up they will drown in real theories. Just be pateint and look at it the way I do - as a mild form of entertainment.
To clarify the above: The site as a mild form of entertainment. NOT the trolls. Them I find very boring….
WillsDad, this is truly an extreme measure, although I understand where you’re coming from. You are more at risk than anyone a this point because more of your theories have been flagged as Trollish.
We’re all frustrated and sad that our site has been taken over by these creatures. I agree we’ve tried our best to hold down the fort, but it is getting out of hand.
I’m assuming that Jeff has had more than one e-mails by now about this situation and will soon speak to us. If you haven’t sent him one already, maybe you should before you suggest a boycott of his site.
He’s been very generous giving us this site to share our views and make friendships and I would not want to be part of a boycott against him or the site.
Please think about this, WillsDad. This could end the site forever and none of us want that.
Hex, sorry your comment wasn’t there when I started mine. Very well said!
Will, quit bringing it up brotha. Don’t be the idiot that adds the fuel to the fire.
Bad idea! Because then the trolls win. The trolls are temporary but this site will remain. Don’t put your personal feelings ahead of the good of the site. So we have to wait a little, No big deal.
I do not know where i am stealing this from but
normal person +annonimity = complete @$$hole
just a good thing to keep in mind and take it with a grain of salt. I dont think that it is really worth being bothered over though. I definately think that the good dialouge on this website outweighs the annoyingness of some people.
I just found this place and I was pretty bummed by the neg storm of the last couple of days. It was really hard to see my positive votes just start disappearing but I know that I’m far from the only one in that boat.
I’m just going to adopt the practice that most seem to have started - adding my vote to my comment and adding positive comments where ever I can to try to outshine the dark forces at work. A$$holes.
WillsDad to echo Hex I also feel your pain. Having been in the position of being targeted its impossible not to want to address the issue. I’m not sure a mass boycott would gather the support it would need to work though.
I agree with you that something should be done but I also know that Mr Croft doesn’t have the time or the money to spend constantly tinkering with this site. It is my personal opinion that the site probably DOES need moderating. I myself would be happy to offer my services as a moderator as I don’t believe the self-moderating works.
As for the multiple IDs thing, as long as a person can come up with multiple email addresses to match their IDs there is not much that can be done it seems. Perhaps we should all take charge of IDs by registering all the possible versions of our names before someone else has a chance to?
Keep up with theories in the meantime. Don’t let the trolls and their supporters grind you down.
Don’t let them win, I say. + vote everything. They (or he/she) want to a whole set of negatives. If every one of us us plusses every theory we read then that’s a lot of work to make negative.
They’ll tire of it before we will. And, to echo Shamballa’s sentiment of not mentioning it - because a reaction is what they want - this is the last I will ever mention of the matter.
Is that really you WillsDad? Or are you the chosen troll who’s been predicted to turn against his own and join the light in glorious rebellion? Either way, I’m with you here.
Bottom line, the site administrator(s) needs to step up.
If the trolls are spamming robots, then simply add those “enter the characters you see here” boxes throughout. Yes, they can be a nuisance for us humans, but it’s worth it.
p.s. Administrator(s), I’m offering my assistance in your time of need. I’ve got a CS degree and I’m not afraid to use it.
Wills I’ve talked to Jeff about this subject a few months ago via email and he made it clear that it’s up to us to deal with this stuff. As others have said he doesn’t have the time or desire to deal with this sort of thing. I think Hex is right, when the new season starts they’ll be overrun and bored by all of this and will leave on their own. If not, we’ll have to find a way to deal with them on our own.
WillsDad. I think we all just need to click on user names if a comment by that user seems out of character.(thats what I did).
Dont post theories that you are really invested in at the moment.This will pass.
Dont feed the trolls. Just flag tag and ignore.
This maniac seems to have issues with quite a few of us,I really don’t think its only to do with your comments on the ‘Where the Island Is” theory.This guy seems to have a problem with seeing us all enjoying ourselves here.
What we need is the right to ban users,based on their comments as well as posts.Three respected members who, if they all agree can get someone off the site in a hurry.And surely it cant be so hard to change the system so that you can only vote if you comment.
If everyone else agreed I would boycott.But Hex seems to think JCroft isn’t likely to care and more likely to close the site down and that would be a shame.And a victory to this creep.
How do we know that you aren’t the troll?
Yeah, my thoughts exactly risebysin.
I’m with sham and tharde on this one. This post shows that the trolls can successfully troll us, and boycotting the site means the trolls win.
My take: this design of this site is worth more than what we’ve paid for it, but not much more. That’s not to say I’m not grateful, but I’ve checked out Jeff’s resume, and I’m sure he knew what the issues were before they even appeared. They would take significant effort to fix, and he’s certainly not generating enough ad revenue to make it worth his while.
I say we shouldn’t jump ship unless and until we have another vessel we can jump on to. Any volunteers to be the Noah for this flood of trolling? (prolly not, huh?) And if it were built, would you come? (prolly not, huh?) Seems like a fun project, anyway. (I say right now.)
Im glad somebody finally came out and said it! Like Sham said: this will pass. creating posts like this will just encourage them.
P.S. If your not a troll (Sorry!} but commenting on everyones posts, Starting threads about boycots, and pretty much turning this place into WDT.com and then accusing users because you didnt see eye to eye on a theory are very trollish qualities.
please just ignore!
WillsDad : I mean the original RE : these postst 9:15pm & 1:15am on http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/nov/13/lost-haiku-page/ I went back and read these, and I knew right away that it was not you, but an imposter. Even if I had wondered about it ,all I would have had to do ,is click on the name to see it was a new user.
You see WillsDad, this is you and this is the troll ( WiIIsDad ) just changing your small l to a capital (i) I. They look so similar and that is what is meant. I feel that anything that I have said on this site has been respectful of everyone ,that I have referenced to in my comments, and look at the vulgarity that was thrown my way! These perpetrators want nothing more than to try and pit us against one another. I for one will not let it deter me from commenting and each time I do, I will also indicate of how and why I am voting the way that I do. I have suggested this before, and Until things are different. My one tip, for anyone using this site to keep from being plagarized is to try and not use any letter in your user name that can be changed to look like the same letters such as L or i . there are a lot more good persons here than not ,and Goodness will prevail .
Would this idea work:
Assume Trolls don’t comment and they always vote negative.
Always comment when you vote and always vote when you comment. You can just subtract the number of comments from the number of votes and add that value to the current score.
So for example:
10 comments, 15 votes Score = +5 15 - 10 = 5. 5 + 5 = 10. True score = +10.
I’d like to suggest a democratic solution: A fixed set of rules. Please suggest corrections if you are unhappy with the terms. Otherwise, please say “Aye” or give some comprehensible sort of indication of agreement:
Rule 1: All first comments on each theory by each member must be in the following format:
{vote: (“+1” or “-1” or “0”)} the zero means no vote
{blank line}
{rest of comment, preferably containing an explanation to your vote}
Rule 2: If you vote, you must comment, giving at least the value of your vote.
Rule 3: If you change a previously stated value of your vote (ie from zero to +1 or -1) you must comment, stating the change of vote in the format described in Rule 1.
+1
I have just balanced out the votes, thus now the scale is balanced, with 4 negative and 4 positive votes. This is an example of the way I think we should comment from now on.
If the trolls are computers, they will not get tired. the site should really consider kristofferdub’s idea about the “enter the characters below” boxes. I think everyone should re-register and this should be a requirement. I think it’s worth the hassle and I am willing to go through that to keep this site sacred. WillsDad, my infinite condolences for being a victim and a thousand words of praise for taking it upon yourself to solve the problem caused by this filthy rotten scum.
+1
Hi all, first of all I have to say thankyou to those that throughthe storm have maged to read my theory (my first) and made some nice comments. All of them have commented this post too and we all know why I make it sound like it was an effort.
I have to say that this posthas just cleared alot of my doubts, frankly I was about not to write or read more comments here ahving seen how my theory (vote wise) was welcomed lol. In any case I am sad this page is going through this “crisis”. I like Reaz1 idea and respectfully I would like to propose another.
Since we are so obsolete and seem to be spoiling the fun of the trolls maybe that is how we should, ourselves, flag our theories. At least we will know were to look for them. Ideally maybe tehy could crete a special flagging cathegory or allow for restricted groups to be created.
As a funny note. Reading this post and comments (with wich I agrre this last part is justa joke) I coul be really freakish and say that they are just like Lost itself, with trials of patience and faith bestowed upon us. Even with suspitions of double play and backstabbing lol
In any case thank you for you theories and I look forward to post a couple more.
To introduce myself, I USED to be WillsDad. When I tried to log in this evening I discovered my account is now “inactive.”
So, I’m back now as “TheRealWillsDad.”
As to this post, I’d read the first few, and the consensus was that I was either overreacting, or at least reacting inappropriately. I took that to heart and retracted it. Or so I thought. Because here it is.
I was pretty P.O.’d when I wrote it. Maybe I shouldn’t have written it. Either way, I’m calmer now, I’ve taken the advice of some pretty smart people here, and I hereby retract this post in spirit, if not in actuality.
BTW, having my account canceled snicked me off all over again.
I need to produce a soap opera. I’ll call it “As the L-T Turns”. I will need some good writers. I know you are here and reading this. Just don’t strike on me dammit.! ;)
This is a bit of a tricky one but I don’t think a boycott will work because a) That plays into the hands of whoevers doing it b) As a few people have rightly suggested this might just lead to mr croft shutting it down all together which I don’t think anybody wants.
Also I have seen a post on which mr croft clearly states he won’t have moderators and I don’t think he’s prepared to negotiate on that one, so that doesn’t look like an option.
I don’t think it’s done by machine as it only seems to work during certain periods, a machine could be programmed to keep at it 24/7, so it is definetely a person. And judging by my recent post, which is one of few that managed to stay in plus figures @ +8 against 34 votes he/she/they could have as many as 26 IDs, of course, I’m assuming nobody legimately voted against it, and why would they? It was brilliant! :).
All I can suggest and I know I’m going to get a few snigers for this so sniger away! Is that we allow the person doing it to use this thread to air whatever grievances it might have with the site/users and we try to resolve them. Of course I am assuming this is not being done purely out of spite/the desire to annoy. So if you are reading this please come and explain exactly what has lead you to do this, I’m sure there is better way to resolve whatever problems you might have, should they accept my inivitation I would like to ask users to refrain from hurling abuse.
I admit it: I “minus one’d” you. If mine was the “-1” that got you “obsoleted” then….oh well. Just lucky, I guess. Consider this: right after I posted a comment to your theory, you went and dinged every single one of mine, and one of them, I think, disappeared because of it. Big deal. That’s how the game is set up; You know the game better than I and I guess you felt like you “won.”
You are obviously not a professional writer, (e.g. sentences beginning with “and,’ “but,” and “however,” one-sentence paragraphs, passive voice, switching tenses, inconsistent capitalization, not knowing that the singular of “vortices” is “vortex,” erroneous use of “i.e.,” starting sentences with dashes, splitting adverbial phrases, book title not set off from ordinary text, etc.) but that doesn’t matter. We aren’t here to be dazzled by the writing, we’re here for the ideas. You are able to transmit ideas, and that’s the key. Some guy up above in one of the comments said he didn’t like one of my theories. Fine-lord knows he’s not the first. What was his argument to prove that my theory was bad? He said that it was poorly written. Attacking a theory by saying it is poorly written is an idiot’s argument, wouldn’t you agree?
RealWillsDad - I agree that writing isn’t everything, the idea is what counts, though how it is presented can go a long way towards to shaping people’s perceptions of it. Voting however doesn’t cause peoples theories to be put in offensive/obsolete/trollish, it is flagging that does that.
Forgive me if I am jumping to conclusions but are you saying that you are responsible for the drive-bys?
Guys, its happening again. The above two posts are written by the troll. I did not write the 7:34 comment (well, I did, but days ago in another post). And I believe that is a fake CrazyPolarBear, too, attempting to bait me with an assinine question.
Though, I will admit this: I didn’t really get the “flag” thing. I never really paid it much attention. I briefly believed that a well-rated (though wrong) theory went to obsolete because mine was the negative vote that tipped some scale. I realize now that that is not how this works.
I’ll also say this: I hated that theory. I said so, and I took a point away. More than I can say for you, troll. Man-up, buddy.
This is my last post on this site. So, anything you see posted anywhere after the date stamp here is the troll.
Goodbye, everybody. It was great while it lasted.
cool
Listen numb-nuts, if I were a fake you would be able to tell by clicking on my name, if you were a the real WillsDad you would know that!
Will the real WillsDad please stand up lol
Anyway I don’t think either of them are the real Will, so Will get a new name and don’t tell anyone!
Oh and numb-nuts, I am well aware that you voted against my theory, 26 times.
we now have two YKTN…
If one was good, arent 2 better? and isnt it the sinserest form of flattery?
You all should just shut the F– up. move on with you’re lives. get some fresh air. play with your brats. come back in febuary when you have something intresting to talk about.
looks like the actual WillsDad is back and hes pissed. See how easily he was turned.
Here’s an idea: WillsDad the real one, if you’re serious about this thing, why don’t you edit one of your theories saying what you wanna say? This way we’ll know it’s you, not the troll(s). And comment on this site giving a link to that theory.
+1 everything. They’ll get bored eventually and move on. Forget about it and start looking forward to season 4. I really really wanna see Danielle’s flashback. It’ll answer so much
Dear everyone, especially WillsDad and TheRealWillsDad (if you two are indeed the same person),
The real YTKN here, this being my 200th post…
I don’t want to take your post #28 here as a personal attack on me. There’s already been enough silliness around here lately.
However, I don’t think your problems began because you minused my theory. Others have done so before, and I’m always open to contrary views.
As a matter of fact, I’ve already attested to the fact that your post was the most interesting one at my thread in over 2 months. I welcomed the debate (and your challenge) as I’m sure you are aware.
Then suddenly, you started accusing ME of minusing your theories and flagging them. If they weren’t me, you assumed they were “disciples” of my “great” theory…
At the same time, a cheeky fellow(s) began minusing everyone else’s theories, flagging MINE as debunked (and more recently trollish), and impersonating long-time members.
I think you’re missing the big picture. Take it easy, as this is not a personal attack against you. Rather, it’s a mass attack on this site perpetrated by one or many individuals to spoil our fun and sow the seeds of distrust.
This guy/gal/people have obviously taken a liking to you, as they believe you are an easy target to anger. He/she/it/they have also obviously read your posts at my thread, and have now resorted to use it as ammo against you (the “new theory” under your fake identity being one of them).
I can understand your reason to boycott this site (btw, this was the first ‘theory’ of yours I read ;) ), but as many other long-time members have said above, you’ll be playing into the mischief-maker(s) hands.
We can ride out this storm. Live together, die alone, remember?
I seriously hope you read this post, WillsDad, as it’s mostly addressed to you. You may not reply (I read you’ve decided to leave), but I hope you’ve chosen to stick around a little longer…
Dear you_knowthenarne,
I’m very amused…
Resuming “radio silence” mode for now…
transmissions will resume in 42 seconds, 23, 16, 15, 8, 4, ….
New game: ID the fakes, I pick:
7:34 TheRealWillsDad
11:07 WTF (almost missed that one. Clever)
11:25 Shamballa
11:31 WillsDad
12:05 Stealthfighter.
Basically the guy is just talking to himself. Explains a lot.