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I really don’t have too much experience in this field, but I would imagine that it is a lot more difficult to kill your father than a complete stranger. Yes, Cooper caused Locke a lot of pain, but - at the end of the day - he is the father figure that Locke has longed for his whole life. Even if he was an absolute b*stard, I don’t think John would want to throw away any kind of chance of building a relationship with him. If you think about it, when Cooper killed the boy who’s Mum he was going to con (can’t remember the name of the episode off hand) Locke went to him and told him to leave; he didn’t call the police or do anything that would endanger Cooper. Naomi, on the other hand, is someone who would be a true enemy to Locke. All he wants to do is stay on the island, and Naomi’s purpose is to get them off the island. That’s the kind of thing Locke thinks is worth killing for.

I guess the island and protecting it from the Freighties (TM - MrsS??) is what’s most important to him now

Locke basically killed cooper, he just got sawyer to do it. It’s the same in reality when you hire a hitman to do the deed, you just don’t want the police to tie you back to the murder, in lockes case he did the opposite he wanted ben to know he killed cooper, even though he didn’t. So smokey the answer to your question he killed both of them, there might be a reason by him not killing cooper directly and locke has probly figured this out.

Pacey, I haven’t killed anyone so I can’t say for sure, but I would imagine that even though it has the same consequence, physically killing someone feels different to giving the orderto kill someone. (e.g. Some people hire hitmen not just because they want to avoid the police, but also because they are too scared to do it themselves.) I think this is the subtle distinction Smokey is asking about.

also one point i wanted to include was how quickly locke came to the decision to kill naomi, with regards to cooper he couldn’t do it himself and spend time planning how to get sawyer to do it (how to get sawyer to come with him, where to do it etc) where as it seems with Noami it was a quick jump out the grave, chat with walt and BAM knife in Naomi.. whatever he’s been told must be very convincing

DDJ The point im tryin to make is if locke did not get sawyer, cooper would still be alive.Locke knew what he was doing. I also think if locke did the deed himself he would of found peace, from his past experences, it would of been a sign of letting go and we all know what happens when the losties let go, they end up dieing. shortly later. This is why to me, it does’nt look good for saywer because he has killed cooper and finally let go about his parents deaths.

Maybe in addition to Locke not having the courage to kill Cooper he recognized that Sawyer needed to do it. If Locke killed Cooper, then Sawyer’s life goal would have never been realized.

As for the death of Naomi, I really like the idea that it was Walt. Has John killed anyone else before?

Locke killed Boone, or allowed it to happen. That was one sick episode.

i don’t think locke killed boone on purpose, although locke asked boone to climb in the plane he did not know that the plane would fall and boone would die

The trolls are killing us. If you want to help do something, please check this:

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true, but he will allow anything to be sacrificed in order to stay on/protect/bond with the island, e.g. Boone, Naomi, Cooper, the sub, the flame, etc.

Pacey - seems like we’re agreeing in that Locke killing Cooper is a different act with different consequences to Locke getting Sawyer to kill Cooper?

Good discussion all. JinLover I think you’re probably my nearest cousin in this debate. Why wouldn’t it be much harder for Locke to kill his father than a stranger?

Also I kind of disagree with Pacey in that I think Ben is responsible for Cooper’s death not Locke. Its another Benipulation. That’s if it was in fact the real Cooper who was killed and not his bilocated double - just an idea I was floating in a theory of mine, Bilocation and The Box…

@ DDJ you are welcome to use Freighties but please for the love of god don’t forget the TM next time! :-)

Smoky, The Missus is right about Locke being Benipulated into killing Cooper, but also, I believe that Locke believed that if it were his hands to actually do the deed, he would be placed in disfavour with “the island”.

I think it was easy for Locke to kill Naomi because when Walt appeared to him, he was likely warned of the danger she was bringing to “the island”, therefore, felt it was in harmony with “the island’s” requirements.

PS I am not saying that Walt physically appeared to John, either!

i think locke was a bit manipulated into getting sawyer to kill cooper. it was richard (i think) that gave him the file on sawyer. otherwise, how would locke have ever known the link between the two?

I once killed a man in Vegas. Just to watch him die.

11:43 shamballa: fake.

This is fun.

Not a lot of experience with this, but I think it is possible that when you have a vision that not only prevents your suicide, but, basically brings you back from the dead, one would tend to give said vision the benefit of the doubt.

Much as I hate to resort to biblical mythology, it is sort of like god instructing Abraham to sacrifice his son. If it had been the local farmer telling Abraham to build the altar for that purpose, Abe would have told him to bugger off. But a booming voice from the sky, or a burning bush, or writing on the wall gives you instructions, you might be more inclined to comply.

Oh, and plus one. I’m on a mission to restore balance to the universe.