Only Fools Dream Of Time And Space
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By AngeloComet
- Only Fools Dream Of Time And Space
- Created: Nov 6, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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We simply can’t process the idea that everything happens at once.
— AngeloComet
Take a second and think of one character on the Island that has displayed the capacity to know of events before they happen, or of events they really couldn’t have logistically known about. Go on. I’ll wait for you. Pick and hold on to the first one that comes to mind.
Got one?
OK. There’s a good chance you thought of Desmond. His capacity to glimpse flashes of the future is well known. Possibly you thought of Locke. He seems to be able to predict rain and had a vision of a bloodied Boone before his fatal accident. You might have thought of Walt. He touched Locke and suddenly became aware that Locke was trying to open the hatch and warned him against doing it. Walt clearly knew something he couldn’t really have known about, and possibly even glimpsed the future of what could happen. If you thought of any of those characters I can’t argue with you.
Anyone else? Well, you could make a case for Rose; that she ‘knew’ her husband Bernard was alive on the other side of the Island. Maybe that’s pushing things, though. That could have just been pure hope masquerading as certainty. Let’s deal with concrete facts.
Some other characters and instances you might not immediately think of:
Claire. In her diary, that Charlie read when she had been kidnapped, Claire wrote of how she had dreamed about a ‘Black Rock’. This was before the ship in the jungle had been found.
Boone. When Locke left him tied in the woods (drugged?) he had an experience of freeing Shannon and running from ‘the monster’. Boone had never encountered ‘the monster’ at this stage (and he never would).
Hurley. When he dreamt he was in the Swan Station larder, where Jin told him he was speaking Korean, on the milk carton was Walt as a missing person (before Hurley or anyone else from the fuselage section knew Walt was missing).
Mr. Eko. Had a vision of a deathly Ana Lucia appearing as she looked when she had been shot, who informed him he had to look for a question mark (something Ana Lucia knew nothing of!) that only Locke knew about. At that instance Mr. Eko had no idea Ana was dead nor how she had been killed.
I was tempted to include Charlie in this list - with his religious visions of Aaron in peril - but I don’t feel these were true indicators of knowledge before knowledge was possible. Arguably, Charlie became the reason Aaron was endangered and didn’t foresee anything. So, in the rigour of concrete evidence, this one doesn’t count. But even discounting Charlie, that’s a fairly sizeable list. So now let me show you where I am headed with this. Stick with me.
The German psychologist Minkowski, in 1908, theorised that there was a static universe where time was non-consequential - it was the observer that created a sense of linearity, of events occurring one after the other. In short, the passing of time is merely the way our brains assimilate our lives; we simply can’t process the idea that everything happens at once. And I haven’t just plucked the name Minkowski out of the sky. Minkowski is the name of the person Jack speaks to on the satellite phone at the end of season three. This suggests, at least to me, the static universe concept is not to be taken lightly.
It may also be a giant red herring. Don’t think I haven’t considered this. But I’ll let doubt rest for my purposes here.
What I find interesting is the characters that displayed ‘powers’ of extra-awareness did so whilst they were asleep. Claire dreamt Black Rock. Hurley dreamt Milk Carton Walt. Eko dreamt Dead Ana Lucia. Does the sleep state relax consciousness into more easily accepting the concept of space-time as a whole? And is space-time more acutely perceptible on the Island than it is anywhere else?
Both Boone and Locke, when under the influence of Locke’s mysterious drug paste, were given what Locke took to be a closer communion with the Island. But perhaps what Locke took to be a closer communion with the Island may actually have just been his consciousness in a more receptive state to space-time as one.
Think of the Island as an enormous facilitator, situated at a point where the right magnetic or atmospheric conditions allow for consciousness to be heightened, or more attuned, to space-time in a non-consecutive, non-linear sense. So long as you’re on the Island and you attune your consciousness to be more receptive, bingo: you’re channelled into a different state of awareness. Maybe a collective consciousness. Maybe just flashes of time happening all at once.
“Only fools are enslaved by time and space,” goes the message in Room 23. (Again, strapping a person to a chair and bombarding them with loud noises and images may create the same state of consciousness that permits heightened awareness of space-time.) This brings me to Desmond. He who was exposed to electromagnetism at close quarters, like overdosing on these Island properties. His is a mind that has traversed both space and time. Isn’t he living concrete proof that this theory is correct?
Well, don’t answer right now. You just take a while. Sleep on it. I’m sure everything will become much clearer.
I like it AC +1 we simply can’t process the idea that everything happens at once
This made me think of what Mikhail said to Kate so I had a little look:
mikhail: Oh yes, but two weeks ago, our underwater beacon stopped emitting its locator signal. There was an event, an electromagnetic pulse. It would be impossible to come back.
KATE: Why would you want to come back?
mikhail: You would not understand.
KATE: Try me.
mikhail: I misspoke. What I meant to say is you are not capable of understanding.
KATE: And why am I not capable?
SAYID: Kate.
mikhail: Because you are not on the list.
KATE: What list?
mikhail: The man who brought me here, who brought all of my people here, he is a magnificent man.
KATE: If Ben’s so magnificent, then why did he need one of us to save him?
mikhail: Ben? Ben is not. I will try to make this as simple as I can. You are not on the list because you are flawed. Because you are angry, and weak, and frightened.
I don’t know if it was intentional but i think you may have just come up with the basis of Jacob’s list
so, why have they not tried to grab desmond, i would have thought ben would want himmore than anyone, just as he did walt??
Thats a great shout Lojozz. I really like the two of these tied together. The list could be of those people that are capable of “dreaming” different things all at once. Perhaps it is designed to highlight those that are without the emotions that disrupt the openess to see these dreams.
Hence why children were taken. Those that are younger have more vivid imaginations and haven’t had the life experience that would “flaw” them. Jack would certainly not be on the list considering how he reacted to the button pushing and many other things. Perhaps the list really does require you to dream, and then take that leap of faith to believe and understand.
Oops sorry +1 too.
No, LJ, not my intention. But like a thief in the night I’ll take whatever I can get!
Interesting post. I should’ve seen it coming. I hadn’t got the Minkowski link. I’d never heard of him, actually. Thanks.
They’ve discounted time travel, but not I suppose the complete suspension of time altogether. This might also tie up all those troubling coincidences in all the back stories. A universe without time and space is a universe with casuality. So the losties were all destined to end up on the island, so some part of their subconscious has always been aware of it.
The only problem with this theory is that after a while it makes my head hurt.
Blooper: For years Desmond served a purpose on the Island. He pushed the button. No need to grab him whilst he was doing this.
But I’m not even sure of how much about Desmond The Others are even aware of. They didn’t spot the yacht that was moored and being worked on by Inman for God knows how long! For all we know they probably assumed it was Inman and Kelvin pressing the button all this time. . .
AC, I love the way you write! And I think you are really on to something with the connection to Minkowski. The show is constantly playing with the viewer being used to time as sequence as well as showing us that human perspective is limited (eyes). I think Prof brought up the book “Flatland” in reference to that kind of limitation. You brought up dreams—I think the blackouts might be another way in to that non-linear perspective. I had a post about this awhile back here: http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jun/03/losts-appeal-and-time/
l Iike the theory. Could time being static and everything happening at once be the reason why Desmond is unable to change the future?
re: the Others not knowing about Desmond pushing the button, they could have seen him from the Pearl (you’d think that if it was so important to keep pushing the button they’d have checked up once in the time Desmond was in the hatch)
I don’t really see a problem with Desmond, he only got his ‘communion’ with the island after the implosion of the Swan, since then the Others have had their hands pretty full.
but Ben seems to know that the people on the freighter are bad, and its widely speculated that widmore is related to the freighter, not to mention dharma, you woudl think ben would have done his homework on desmond, made the connection and intervened in someway
Forgot about the Pearl, DDJ. Good point well put. Can’t argue with it. Those Others knew what was going on all along!
Blooper: I don’t follow what you mean.
JL another excellent theory! Like butter, you’re on a roll today. Another foreshadowing event could be Shannon’s vision of Walt after he’s taken from the raft. She doesn’t yet know that Walt’s missing or that Michael, Jin and Sawyer are all in the ocean fighting for their lives.
Oops, sorry Angelo I gave credit to the wrong person for this excellent theory! Sorry about that!
Great theory! The quote that Lojazz posted between Kate and Mikhail made me wonder why the Swan implosion didn’t disrupt the Looking Glass jammer. Has this been adressed? What about the radio tower, how does that still work? Tom stated that communications were down and Mikhail said that their underwater beacon stopped emitting its signal.
Angelo, another wonderful theory! +1
While I love to watch movies and other TV shows about actual time travel, I was always troubled by the theories about it on Lost.
You explained it away beautifully for me.
Dharmacide, those are excellent points! Why would the implosion effect the underwater beacon and their above water communications but not effect the underwater communications? And why is the radio tower working when all the other communications are down? And what about their hand held radios? An awful lot of inconsistencies here in my opinion. Thanks for pointing them out!
If it is the island that frees individuals from Space and Time why bombard them with anything or require catastrophe as in the case of Desmond?
Retro, in my theory it’s the Island that provides a better place that allows a person to become aware of space-time, but it doesn’t do it all for you.
You can have the most comfortable bed in the world, but it’s no guarantee of perfect sleep. You’ve still got to get in it and shut your eyes. And even then there may be noisy neighbours, or interruptions, or nightmares. . .
Hey AC! I think you made some great observations!!
Have you heard of J. W. Dunne? He wrote a book called, “An Experiment with Time” which is about dreams and time. He theorizes that in our dream lives, an essential bit of our unconscious self drifts through the fifth dimension witnessing events past and future. So basically, the dreamer’s unconscious drifts throughout a four-dimensional landscape of time and space, both past and future, leaving traces in the dreamer’s memory when he awakens. The result, based on observation, is that dreams are as often “memories” of the future as of the past.
I was also intrigued by his comments on an “ultimate observer” (Which made me think of the whispers that we hear so often on LOST) He makes the assumption that there are more-or-less conscious observers present in all of these higher time dimensions. I’m still reading up on him, but your post addressed a lot of the same issues and I thought that was intriguing.
Anyway, I really enjoyed reading your theory! Awesome Job! +1
Could it be simpler?
What about this, disorientation makes the lostie aware of the reality that we (me, you, the losties, everyone) are present, and that we as present are necessarily at the crossroads of future and pass.
None of the losties (with the exception of desmond) [who knows what the f@#$ they are doing to Karl!] is not free from constraints of space and time but more aware. They seem to be more sensitive to their individual pasts, more pressed upon by their individual futures; but none are masters of either.
When the noisy neighbor wakes you up from the slumber of your everyday life, your perspective changes from one of sleepwalking, and maybe you realize that you are living a nightmare …
Retro, you call that simpler!? :o)
And Paintgirl, you’re telling me there’s a fifth dimension!? Never heard of the book, but it sounds in keeping with the kind of things I’ve read (and aligns with good old Minkowski). Thanks for the compliments. Your conscious observer idea deserves more than to be a comment here. Flesh that out and make it a theory; from the little you wrote it sounds very good.
You are giving the sci-fi answer. Im trying to give the psy-fi answer.
+1 AC let me make this even more simplier. The key to spirituality. In thinking about the comment that LJ made, I feel that the reason why Walt and the rest of children were on the list is simple. Children believe in an “higher power”. In children, there “higher power” may be in the form of parents. In season one, I believe that the parents of the children had died in the crash. Automatically that would make whom ever was raising the children, the children’s higher power.
I also believe that Locke has a “higher power” as well. On the other hand it is clear that Desmond clearly believes in a higher power, (he was a monk). Although he may have been “in and out” The key to spirituallity is to deal with fear, to live though fear. to enjoy life. Selfishnes, anger, ego, hate, dishonesty, are all fear based. People on the list are all spiritual according to Mikhail.
I need to get back to work right now, sorry if this was confusing,
When I suggested a move towards simplicity I was suggesting an answer that did not rely on some strange, incomprehensible, impossible fact, but instead answer that was possible in and related to the space time continuum that we know and rely upon.
While the possiblity of magic islands and supernatural (re higher) powers may exist, my experience suggests otherwise.
If the island was magic, what would it mean? If allowed to stand for its meaning on its own as magic, it would cease to have signifigance; if interpreted metaphorically this introduces the concept into dialectic.
AC, I love this perspective….very well done.
How do you think Richard Alpert and his agelessness fit into this whole thing? And what about his first interaction with Ben after he sees his mother? Maybe Richard noticed that Ben was special not for his being able to talk to Jacob (as has been theorized on this site and many others), but instead because his vision showed his receptiveness to the space-time mindset.
Also, keep up the good work. It’s kind of fun to read about these behind-the-scenes discussions you and LJ have.
YAE - Richard Alpert’s agelessness is a tough one to fit in here, no two ways about it. Thankfully, it would seem he isn’t likely to feature too much in the forthcoming series which means I get to brush him under the carpet for now!
FYI, the discussions between LJ and I on here are succinct, friendly and clean. Usually, behind the scenes, they are long-winded trundling debates that inevitably descend into abuse.
Kat, you’re not so un-awesome yourself!
I do have some understanding of the collective consciousness. I stopped shorting at prefixing it wth “Jungian” in the theory because it was too throwaway. I was concentrating more on static universe and the individuals role in it.
However, no, I am not averse to it - though I do wonder how the writers could squeeze that in and make it translate. Maybe they won’t bother. Just leave it as something that ‘exists’ for the likes of you and I to draw our own conclusions about.
Maybe Des’s exposure to the anomaly made him the major facilitator, as opposed to the Island… and this all that the Island previously processed to do with apparent ‘pre-cognition’ then started getting filtered through him. (It’s interesting that this phenomena for everyone else has taken a backseat since Desmond has had the power!)
To quote Minkowski,
“From henceforth, space by itself, and time by itself, have vanished into the merest shadows and only a kind of blend of the two exists in its own right.”