LOST-Theories.com

Jaz - If what your stating is true then Kates goonnnna dieeeeee! I read you other comment in another thread and truly enjoyed the notion that because Sun gives and Kate takes, their outcomes could be considerably different. BTW I met ProfO on Sunday

If this were truly the case I think that alot of conclusions could be make based on the simple fact that being in tune with the island or the Cosmos as ProfO would say, would benefit the inhabitant.

Positively ;-)

I don’t know if it’s my computer or the website, but a statement in large bold letters runs down into the first half of the theory and partially obscures it. It takes out the beginning of the first seven lines.

Its not your computer ozzig because I see it as well

Of course, this all hinges on if Kate really is pregnant. I don’t think we’ve seen anything to even hint that she is. (I think it’s safe to say their, um, ‘tryst?,’ was unprotected and so it’s possible. But if she is, I think this would be an intriguing concept. +1

I think there was an awful lot of lead up and forshadowing of a pregnancy for Kate. I also think the pregnancy/conception was set up to be a controlled experiment. Very interesting Jaz :)

and +1 :)

We know Kate makes it off the Island, though. Pregnant or not, she’s going to make it.

I am intrigued by a notion touched on here, Jaz, about Ben being a major factor in the pregnancy issue. For me, you might not have gone far enough to involve him. His mother died during childbirth and I am willing to venture that Annie - his childhood sweetheart - probably died before she could give birth to his own child (this would have prompted his complete slaughter of Dharma - there was nothing else for him).

The childbirth issue is Ben’s obsession. He keeps Juliet on to resolve the problem. Alpert, meanwhile, thinks Ben is getting sidetracked… If I had the full inclination I’d give myself a proper run at this issue, but I’m looking into the character of Alex at mo. . .

+1 From me, because I think this rabbit hole goes a lot deeper. If I leave another +1 at the bottom of it, will you go investigate further? :o)

Fist of all - Ben’s a Pharisee? Because he uses knowledge and technology for reproduction? I believe you will find that Pharisees were a second and third century BC Jewish sect with some political overtones. They had nothing to do with reproduction through technology. I’m pretty sure Ben’s not a Pharisee. I am completely baffled by what you meant to say there.

It also seems that this idea is repulsively anti-women. Only women who know their place - the gardeners, the receivers - will live. Women who are aggressive (takers) must die.

Wow.

And people here think this is a good thing?

Wow.

I’d just like to say that maybe the reason kate gets off the island is because Juliet finally figures the preggos thing. It would be neat, and maybe jack would help?

WillsDad: I think jazzie is quoting Locke there. He was the one who called Ben a Pharisee because the Others were not “in tune” with the Island, just pretended to be.

And I’m guessing it’s not about “women who know their place”, but —as the thread title says— natural vs artificial pregnancies. Sun got pregnant because she’s in love with her husband. Kate could have got pregnant because she was manipulated, and that’s what could be “bad”. I’m reading jazzie’s post this way, but of course that’s just me.

WillsDad, Yeah Occam is right — I was quoting Locke who says Ben is a Pharisee because he uses technology. As for the giver/takers—trying to think of that in terms of who might or might not be in tune with the island. So from the island perspective Sun is someone who grows things, Kate is not. As far as personality traits I don’t think Sun is meek and passive or that Kate is aggressive.

MusicMadam, I don’t really agree with this theory but I do appreciate the fresh look at an old issue. +1 for bringing some fresh air to the dusty old pregnancy problem issue. I think the idea of being in tune with the island as a means of self advancement is not only very interesting, but also very likely. We’ve seen evidence of how people like Walt, Rose, and Locke seem to reach a higher spiritual and in some cases physical level when they’re communing with the island. The downside to this theory is that it implies that none of the Other’s women who were killed in childbirth became pregnant through “natural” means (i.e. being in love with their husband/partner). That’s a big leap to make. Obviously we don’t know how many women have died on the island, but it’s been enough that Ben recognized the problem and sought out Juliet. And in her three years on the island even more women have died. Have all of them failed to find harmony with the island? Some have probably been there for a large portion of their lives (like Ben) - certainly some of them would have been in tune with island and become pregnant “naturally” and gone to term. But we’ve been led to believe that there have been no successes in conceiving on the island.

I think you may have hit on a facet that can add to the problems but as the sole cause, I’m having a tough time with it. My guess is that you’re on the right track regarding the Mother’s commune with the island as a precursor to their physical and mental well being. It could certainly be a part of what is happening, but I think there’s more to the problem than this.

Again though, I really appreciate your fresh look at the problem. You will remain, the Jazz Goddess. +1 for a new approach.

@ozzig, if you place the cursor over the quote the misaligned text with temporarily disappear allowing you to read the first several lines of the theory. Hope this helps!

Jukin: Here I go again, acting as the “Jazz Goddess’ Oracle”… ;-)

Yeah, I see where you’re coming from, about all Other’s pregnant women dying. But then again, I think that’s why ninjazz tied this theory with the Locke quote: Othersville is the proof of the Others not being in tune with the Island. So maybe it’s not these women got pregnant “non-naturally” as in “not being in love with someone” or as in “being manipulated to get pregnant”… it’s just they where “Pharisees”. They were “takers”.

[Now I just hope I interpreted correctly the signs, o mighty Ninjazz-Kali-Goddess… XD]

Occam I see what you mean and how it ties in with JP’s theory. I guess we need to know more about what the Others are doing. They are certainly “in tune” with Jacob … well some of them must be anyway… and that would lead me to think they have some sort of island understanding and are in some way giving back to the island. I guess we need more info on them to really put this all together. Man this is starting to make my head hurt!!! I’m going to have to take some of Locke’s Juju Juice and sit in a tent and meditate on this stuff for a while.

Yeah, it would be great to have some more info about what the original Dharma pursued, and why the Hostiles finished them so abruptly. So to speak.

I tend to think —and I sort of remember someone already posted something along these lines as a theory— the “original” Hostiles were more “Island-wise”, while the “original” Dharma were toying with science gadgets on the Island, and that could have been the cause of the fight that ended in the Purge. Any way or the other, it seems Ben’s people is now pretty comfy sitted in what Dharma guys left behind, so they became “Pharisees”. Richard says Ben is obsessed with pregnancy issues, as if that was something that diverted them from their true goal. Some people has theorized this might be because of Annie’s death for miscarriage, and I see it as very likely to be the case. But maybe these “pregnancy issues” were not common among the Hostiles until they adopted the previous Dharma ways?

More Ben flashbacks, NOW! :-)

Thanks for the interpretations Occ-oracle; you read the signs well. I guess this is a perk of being a goddess? You get to write kind of unclear theories :-) I did forget to include here the idea that maybe all the Other women that died have been impregnated through artificial insemination—no evidence for this; just we haven’t seen any grieving fathers as far as I can remember which does seem a little odd. And it would be in keeping with the technology theme and the need to have a fertility specialist.

OK stepping down from on high now—chilly up here—plus one hand doesn’t know what the other hand is doing. ouch…quit that

Looks like I owe some apologies. Bartender, the next round is on me.

no worries, Wills. I’ll have an ambrosia, if you’re buying,

Well, it seems I didn’t read the signs that well, m’lady, because I didn’t see you were meaning “all the Other women that died have been impregnated through artificial insemination.” But, besides that, it seems our Boone-ctivity works pretty fine ;-)

Heh, forgot our mutual Booniosity—maybe it’s that Locke-a-poo joy juice that helps the connection? Well I think you can be forgiven for not reading the signs of that particular part of the theory as I don’t think I left any. :-)

hey there kat-artner-in-crime—I don’t know at all how this detail would work out as far as plot, but thematically—the women and children are sacrificed in a war between generations? That is the dynamic playing out on the show it seems.

That is a verrrry interesting point about Locke. Is it possible that Cooper was his Dad but that he was immaculately conceived so to speak?

Maybe not a war between generations, but definitely a war between factions —pro-Island vs. pro-technology, givers vs. takers. That takes me back to my previous question: maybe these “pregnancy issues” were not common among the Hostiles until they adopted the previous Dharma ways?

About Locke’s possible conception by artificial insemination, I think it was discussed before. Anyway, wouldn’t that mark him as one of the “Pharisees”? Or, being him an “innocent subject”, he would be spared of whatever fate is deserved to them?

JazzDevil A thought provoking theory! And, the discussion and various view points in this thread are outstanding!

Everyone makes valid points! There is only one point I would like to make mention of and that is, I am not certain “the others” women were placed into isolation. Juliette said it was where they were taken to die. But, do we believe this to be true? I am wondering if that is part of the grand ruse. Perhaps, the babies do survive and taken elsewhere. +1