Rogue Others
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By AngeloComet
- Rogue Others
- Created: Nov 3, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.9: Stranger in a Strange Land
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
Nobody knew anybody’s names the first night.
— AngeloComet
“You [Goodwin] run and you can make that shore line in an hour. Ethan, get up there to that fuselage. There may actually be survivors; and you’re one of them. A passenger, in shock - come up with an adequate story if they ask. Stay quiet if they don’t. Listen, learn, don’t get involved. I want lists in 3 days. Go.”
This, as I am sure you all remember, is what Ben said to The Others upon witnessing the mid-air dismantling of Oceanic 815. Compare and contrast with the speech of Ana Lucia to Michael.
“They came the first night that we got here. They took 3 of us. Nothing happened for 2 weeks, then they came back. They took 9 more. They’re smart, and they’re animals, and they could be anywhere at any time.”
Perhaps this is something that has occurred to you already, but here, with these key pieces of information next to each other, the discrepancy is hard to miss. Ben gave Goodwin and Ethan three days to make lists, and yet the tail section group were attacked and had people kidnapped the very first night.
So what happened to the three days to make lists?
My friend Lojozz and I kicked around the idea there were a second group of Others. A more savage, raggedy bunch. I’ll call them Rogue Others. We posited that these Rogue Others attacked the tail section survivors the first night, interrupting the plan of Ben’s Others. I liked the idea that Ben’s ‘civilised’ Others modelled their disguise (Tom’s Bearded ruffian!) on these rougher Rogue Others. Confusion could abound with Ben’s Others mistaken for Rogue Others by people none-the-wiser there was more than one faction on the Island.
When I considered the idea of Rogue Others I thought of when Jin and Mr. Eko hid in the jungle, faces at ground height, watching feet traipse past. Dirty, bare feet. The last, memorably, trailed a teddy bear on a lead. Before I investigated further, this was the abiding image.
Could these Rogue Others be the original hostiles that, post-purge, refused to live in the Dharma facilities? Perhaps the Rogue Others disliked technology, considering it “cheating”, as Locke once put to Ben. Such an aversion to technology would ally with Jacob; a tribe of Rogue Others more akin with Jacob than Ben. There’s juicy scope in this notion but I brought myself back to Earth. Reality testing. Find the proof. So I looked into it further.
We learn during The Other 48 Days about those that were kidnapped the first night. “3 of the people are missing; the blond guy, the curly-haired guy, and the German who was helping us with the injured.”
Add to this - “Nobody knew anybody’s names the first night.”
Anybody else finding it hard to understand how three people could have been ‘selected’ so quickly by Ben’s Others? Before names were known, before lists could have been drawn up and distributed? Three people were taken the the first night! As much as the Rogue Others theory feels like a crazed, wild-card idea, the ignorance of the ‘3-day list’ command is hard to justify in its place.
But back to reality testing. On Day Nine Zack and Emma were taken. We know those kids were definitely swiped by Ben’s Others; we see them again on the Hydra Island outside Jack’s cage. Was Zack holding a teddy bear in that scene? You bet he was! That really fouls up the idea that it was Rogue Others traipsing single file through the jungle that day. One nail in the coffin.
How many people from the tail-section were taken? 3 on the first night. 9 the second time. Throw in Cindy and that makes a total of 13 people apparently captured by The Others. How many people were by Jack’s cage? I counted roughly thirteen. That’s nail number two.
So I started this investigation fairly confident there was reasonable scope to argue the existence of Rogue Others. Now, alas, I am forced to concede they are nothing more tangible than an intriguing idea. The Rogue Others theory, sadly, reduced to little more than a rogue idea where all that disappointingly remains is the nagging question of why Ben’s ‘3 days to make lists’ rule was completely ignored that first night, and how Ben’s Others could have possibly known who to take.
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.9 | Stranger in a Strange Land | 2-21-2007 | Jack | 126 |
| 3.1 | A Tale of Two Cities | 10-4-2006 | Jack | 132 |
| 2.7 | The Other 48 Days | 11-16-2005 | Eko, Ana-Lucia, Libby, Bernard, Cindy | 93 |
Looks like an error to me. Or perhaps Goodwin was just taking initiative and found 3 definite candidates right off the bat, while Ethan is more apt to follow procedure (probably an important trait in a surgeon). But kudos on the follow-up and for posting anyway.
I’m with DannyBoone. Perhaps Goodwin just got his list arranged more effeciently. After all there were only 23 survivors in the tail section compared to 42 int he front section…
Excellent way of approaching it though so I’m plussing for that.
AC—these same questions have been bugging me since rewatching that episode to do the Group1 posting and they still are. Also, why send Ethan and Goodwin, 2 out of the 3 doctors, and not send someone more like a spy? And in fact both get killed. So my only suggestion would be that while Ben tells Goodwin to make a list, Ben plans to come and take some of the Tailies immediately. Why? I’m not sure except that it seems very Ben like to undercut his own people. I did have a theory about his doing this to Ethan here: http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jul/27/ben-aaron/
katndahat—I think the footprint stuff got explained somewhere? They trail branches behind to wipe them out or something?
Angelo, I’m with kat on this one. I’m keeping the door open. Here’s what bothers me: That first night Goodwin is instructed to make a list of the Tailies. He’s not to be noticed, just try to blend in.
Ana Lucia uses they when she speaks of the taking of the first three Tailies and again two weeks later.
Goodwin may have many talents, but is it possible for him to kidnap three grown men all by himself, bring them back to Ben’s camp and then go back another hour again to the Tailies camp to compile a list?
And would Ben have approved, assuming Goodwin was part superman and had acccomplished this? I didn’t see any time that Ben had to give Goodwin different instructions. They just ran off as soon as Ben told them what to do and we saw that.
So, I guess it’s the ‘they’ part that’s troubling to me. I believe there had to be a ‘they’ to accomplish kidnapping three grown men. And I think this supports part of your theory.
+1 for bring this up and a good discussion.
great food for thought… +1
Annie: the “they” part Ana Lucia uses is entirely correct. It was on the first night that Eko managed to attack and kill two of the Others when he beat them to death with a stone. From this, and the fact that three were taken, shows us that there were definitely more than one. A group of Others showed up that night and acted on instruction to snatch three people. I still cannot understand how that was possible.
That’s right, Angelo. I forgot about Eko killing the two men. Well, then you’re right, that just makes no sense at all. It would seem to me some Benipulation, but for what reason? Or it could play into your theory about rogue Others.
Another mystery that hasn’t been brought up before! Have I said what an asset you are to this site? Well, you are.
AC I second Annie as to what a good addition to the site you are—and I vote Benipulation. I think he sent people that night—and all I can think of is that to one group of others (Ethan, Goodwin, Juliet) he appears as if he is trying to just gather information at least initially (one of the good guys) but the perhaps with the more militaristic wing of the others he never hides the fact that he has more hostile intent or that he wants to create conflict from the beginning.
Jaz: Good ideas about Ben’s duplicity even with his own people. There might just be something in that… Although I still do worry it’s an oversight - but perhaps one that the creators can cover over the cracks with using the ideas here (so long as the point become apparent to them!).
The compliments are very humbling. Thank you.
Maybe the Rogue Others did take the three people the first night but sometime during the following weeks the Others got them back and that is why they were outside Jack’s cage. +1 for the good theory.