Future/Past Seeing & Future/Past Changing
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By jazprof
- Future/Past Seeing & Future/Past Changing
- Created: May 30, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 13, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
I actually think Jack may have gone through something very similar to Desmond in “Flashes Before Your Eyes.”
— jazprof
MrAlpert’s recent excellent post on the abilities of Mikhail to see the future/past as Desmond does reminded me of some ideas of mine from earlier posts about the abilities of some of the other characters. First though I wanted to pose a couple of questions regarding Desmond in “Flashes Before Your Eyes.”
First, I want to ask what people think is happening to Desmond in that episode if it isn’t time travel. Doesn’t he go back and relive moments in his life? And second question, since when he relives his past certain things are different—he meets Mrs. Hawking, for instance—doesn’t that mean there have to be alternate time lines?
On to other characters:
Jack) I actually think Jack may have gone through something very similar to Desmond in “Flashes Before Your Eyes.” Jack comes out of a black out on the island. He has stowed in his pocket several bottles of alcohol which prove useful when he has to sterilize his injury. Did he save them just for that purpose without having the kind of conscious precog flash that Desmond has? I also think Sarah’s ability to walk does not have to do with Jack’s surgical skill but with his ability to alter past/future—to change her destiny (not sure how). And I wonder if Jack’s choice not to save Shannon and Boone’s father has something to do with their eventually being on Flight 815 and thus with their deaths.
Christian) I think Christian not only could see the future—he kept people from changing it. Before running into Christian Sawyer had the chance to kill Duckett but didn’t follow through. After talking to Christian, Sawyer goes out and kills Duckett. He tells Sawyer: “it’s fate. Some people are just meant to suffer.” Christian also repeatedly says “that’s why the Red Sox will never win the World Series.” The fact that the Red Sox won the World Series shortly after the plane crashed is evidence that something is out of whack with fate.
Charlie) Remember Charlie’s fear that Aaron would drown? He had a vision of Claire (as the Virgin Mary) with his own mother beside Claire. I think this was a somewhat disguised precog of his own death.
Claire) She wished that her mother was dead—the accident followed. Very similar to Walt.
Locke) Getting Sawyer to kill his father has somehow led to his ability to walk. Locke’s faith in the ability to change destiny puts him in tune with the island. Whenever he loses that faith, his legs are affected.
Mr. Eko) As soon as he gave up on the idea that he could change his past, smokie killed him.
Shannon/Boone & Nikki/Paulo) These characters were drawn attention to as mirror images of each other. I don’t think both couples were meant to be on the airplane. This is the symbolism behind the scene in the airport in which Boone asks Paulo for his chair (to take his place) and Nikki and Paulo vow never to become like Shannon and Boone (dead). Again, like the Red Sox winning the world series, something has gone wrong with fate/the time line and instead of either/or (time line A in which Nikki and Paulo are on the plane; time line B in which Shannon and Boone are) the two time lines have crossed and we have both.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Charlie | Charlie Pace | 1.7, 1.2, 2.10, 1.24, 3.21 | 413 |
| Claire | Claire Littleton | 2.15, 2.12, 1.10, 1.15, 1.21, 3.12 | 397 |
| Desmond | Desmond David Hume | 2.23, 3.17, 4.5 | 898 |
| Jack | Jack Shephard | 1.1, 1.5, 2.11, 1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 3.9, 3.22, 3.1, 4.10, 4.12, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1505 |
| John | John Locke | 3.3, 2.17, 1.4, 1.19, 3.13, 3.19, 4.11, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1292 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.8 | Flashes Before Your Eyes | 2-14-2007 | Penny | 242 |
Similar theories
| Title | Author | Cmnts | Votes | Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Future and past seeing abilities of Desmond, Mikhail and Smoky/Jacob, maybe not time travel after all! | MrAlpert | 16 | 13 | +9 |
“Again, like the Red Sox winning the world series, something has gone wrong with fate/the time line”
Looks like it going to happen again!!!
I’m a RS fan Black, so I hope so :)
I read Desmond’s “visit to the past” as a flashback. I think when he fell while painting, he received his ability to see the future and had flashes of everything that happened on the island. So, when he woke up, it seemed to him as if he was living the entire thing over again. That’s how I’ve always seen it, actually, although I know that most other people think I’m full of it. :-)
As for your other observations… excellent as always. I think you’re onto something.
jazprof, are you saying that Sawyer altered Locke’s timeline by killing his father for him? Therefore, Locke was/is never pushed out of the window? Or am I reading that wrong?
I think Desmond is the only one with the ability to see in time because when he turned the failsafe key the effect on him was that he became omnipresent for a brief amount of time. The relived time he spent in the past with Penelope stuck out more in his mind because it was the most pivotal moment in his life witch ultimately brought him to the island. I think he will start having more moments like this where he will flash backwards instead of forwards and maybe will see him in the stadium again with Jack running… up and down the stairs. Does anyone else find he acted as though he knew Jack back then? Go back and take a look at that episode… Jack confides in him about not being able to fix Sara.. And he replies by sayin “But what if ya could brotha” he knew Sara would pull through… at the end when he leaves he says to jack.. “see ya in another life brotha”… It’s plain to see that he knows something…
Hanso & Kat, yeah I do think Sawyer altered Locke’s timeline by killing his father. I just don’t know how it works though because Cooper on the island knew about the plane crash so he would have already pushed Locke out the window. I don’t know when the different timelines got messed up, but before the plane crash. Maybe the incident?
No… Sawyer didn’t alter Locke’s timeline. The island has healing powers… Rose’s cancer… Jin’s fertility… John’s legs… Naomi’s wound… Stop with the time altercations already. jeeezz. Ben said so himself that the island had the ability to heal people thats why he thought it was impossible for him to have cancer but he did (the island is mad at Ben)… but thats a story for another debate. You also said so yourself.. Cooper knew about the crash therefore it wasn’t a younger version of him. The only time traveling being done on the show is through Desmond’s flashes.
NowImLost: Yes, in the stadium I think it’s obvious that Desmond does know Jack. Just before talking to Jack, he had an unexpected and emotional conversation with Penny, and then when he was talking to Jack he acted like a guy who hasn’t got a care in the world. There was something he wanted Jack to know. “You’ve got to lift it up” Desmond said, and then he acted like he was talking about Jack’s ankle. But it was obvious he was talking about something else. Will we find out what Desmond was really referring to in season 4?
Jaz, Great post, I have pondered for a while now whether Kate knew she was going to the island thats why she killed her step dad, Maybe via a flash forward or summit, she knew she could’t leave her mother alone with him so took out insurance and BANG. also remember back to season 1 when Kate robbed the bank and the toy aeroplane was in the saftey deposit box. It certainly seemed like she knew her fate. maybe Jack wants to rescue everyone out of guilt because he got them there in the first place. he said he sits on a plane and wishes it would crash without a care for the other passengers. maybe out of guilt he has to rescue them although he dosen’t want to leave
Also just sub point, but remember Claires plam reader or whatever he was who said that the baby had to live and she couldn’t have an abortion. he suffered the same forward flashes, I believe he was also invloved in the rose bernard flash back when someone brought a girl back from the dead which could have been the result of the spiders on the island biting her. We need to all sit down rewatch every episode and comment on them day be day and see what we come up with each day until the next season how cool would that be. bet we all pick up on things we never seen before.
The man that Kate killed was actually her biological father, he was not her step-dad.