Changing the Past w/o Time Travel or One’s Heart’s Desire
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By jazprof
- Changing the Past w/o Time Travel or One’s Heart’s Desire
- Created: May 28, 2007
- Last updated: Oct 22, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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This theory is based on Kate’s “He” and the Price of Redemption by jazprof. You may wish to read it before continuing.
Jack’s strongest desire is to rescue Kate … But what if the cost of Jack getiing his heart’s desire is that everyone else had to die?
— jazprof
A while ago I had a theory about the way time was working on the island mostly inspired by the Whispers. Probably the most important part of that theory was that causality is not just working forward but backward (Dabiatchishere helpfully called this “retrocausality”). Looking at that theory again, and connecting it to ProfOzone’s “Giving Them What They Want” I think I’ve come up with a good explanation of how the Losties might be changing the past without time travel and how Jack and Kate have wound up portrayed the way they are in the flashforward.
I say the “past” is being altered by what happens on the island, but that is perhaps a misleading way to think about time. What if the flashbacks are not just a narrative device being used to show us moments in the past which relate to the current moment in time on the island—but are instead happening alongside of what we think of as the present. And what one most desires on the island or what one is manipulated into desiring by Ben affects what happens in linear time off the island (because in fact, the island is not in the “present”—not in linear time—but in some “snowglobe” outside of linearity.)
Implications/Evidence:
1) Jack’s strongest desire is to rescue everyone—but in particular Kate. He has shown this a number of times—wanting her to stay behind when they go after Michael; not wanting her to come back for him; even in the last episode explaining Sawyer’s actions. What if Jack got what he most desired? Remember when Jack asked Juliet about Sarah? What he most wanted for Sarah was that she was happy—leading a normal married life with hubby and kid (or kid to be). Maybe that is exactly the life Kate is living in the flashforward (several people have pointed to the suburban symbol of the Volvo she’s driving). But what if the cost of Jack getiing his heart’s desire is that everyone else had to die?
2) What if what saved Sarah’s life was not any surgical procedure, but Jack wanting her to live and be happy when he’s on the island?
3) When in time was Cooper in that car accident? Was it before he pushed Locke out the window? What Locke wants more than anything is to walk. In order for this to happen, his Dad can’t push him out the window. The island gives him both his father (prior to his father pushing him out the window) and a man who has been so damaged by his father’s cons that that man will kill his father.
4) Maybe “Greatest Hits” shows us a summary of the past being altered such that Charlie gets what he most desires—his band’s big break; scoring with two women; being a hero; but most importantly a positive relationship with his Dad and learning to swim so that he can save Claire and Aaron.
5) When Desmond turned the key he was exposed to a strong dose of the electromagnetism which allows him to be aware of both flashbacks and flashforwards.
6) The Whispers are often from the “past”—for example Sawyer hearing Frank Duckett’s voice in the episode in which the Boar keeps destroying his tent. Or Jack hearing his Dad’s voice (from the flashback in the same episode) coming to him over the intercom (think that was in “Tale of Two Cities”?). Hearing the whispers is a way that the other characters on the island become intermittently aware of flashbacks and flashforwards just as Des is.
7) I think Sun’s desire to have Jin’s child—which seems to be even stronger than her desire to live—is going to have a positive outcome on her pregnancy. Somehow the fear that they would die (maybe passed on from Ben) has been a self-fulfilling prophecy for the other women.
8) Dharma discovered that the island had this ability to affect moments of time, and the numbers are a way of harnessing that power.
9) The “Incident” released some of this causal influence in an uncontrolled way. The numbers are a way of controlling that causal influence.
10) When Hurley played the numbers he unleashed all kinds of “coincidences.” These are actually the moments of past/future causally influencing Hurley’s present.
11) The “virus” is not an actual sickness—it is a name for this ability to change the past based on what one most desires. It is a sickness because making such changes can have huge unforeseen and unwanted consequences.
12) Many literary allusions on the show are playing into the idea of the island being a place outside of time, or one in which time does not work in the same way. Also a number of allusions point to unforeseen concequences of getting what you most desire. A few of those connections: The Tempest/Forbidden Planet; Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass; The Wizrd of Oz; Lost Horizons.
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Charlie | Charlie Pace | 1.7, 1.2, 2.10, 1.24, 3.21 | 403 |
| Desmond | Desmond David Hume | 2.23, 3.17, 4.5 | 860 |
| Hurley | Hugo “Hurley” Reyes | 2.18, 2.4, 1.18, 4.1, 4.12 | 558 |
| Jack | Jack Shephard | 1.1, 1.5, 2.11, 1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 3.9, 3.22, 3.1, 4.10, 4.12, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1460 |
| Kate | Katherine “Kate” Austen | 3.6, 1.2, 1.3, 2.9, 1.12, 1.16, 1.22, 3.15, 4.4, 4.12 | 714 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.22 | Through The Looking Glass | 5-23-2007 | Jack | 1252 |
Similar theories
| Title | Author | Cmnts | Votes | Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Discussion on time, part 2: My Dinner With Jazprof | ProfOzone | 16 | 8 | +8 |
| The whispers… and a hunch… | ProfOzone | 3 | 2 | +2 |
| Can Someone Explain the Flash-Forward Theories to Me? | faliah_dahn | 3 | 2 | 0 |
Interesting variation on a time dimensional shift effect.
Also, the fellow who answers Jack’s call from the satellite phone gives his name as “Minkowski.” Could this refer to Hermann Minkowski a well-known mathematician/phycisist who maintained radical views on relativity involving space-time continuums? Is this another clue into the possibility of a 4th dimensional plot scenario?????
I like this idea. Maybe we need to shift our thinking slightly.
the producers already said that they were not gonna have it so the island was in a snowglobe
Lostman, I looked up what you were referring to and when the producers said that the island was not in a snowglobe they were referring to the ending of another TV show (St. Elsewhere’s) in which the whole show turns out to be the dream of an autistic boy: “Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, the executive producers who oversee Lost, say the survivors are not dead and trapped in some kind of purgatory. Nor does Lost take place as a dream or hallucination in one character’s mind — a concept they call “the snow-globe theory,” ‘ (from USA today).
So there comment about it not being a snowglobe doesn’t have anything to do with my theory that the island exists outside of linear time.
jaz… excellent, excellent thoughts.
John’s father was taken after the plane crash, since Cooper knew his son had “died” in the crash, but I don’t think this point disturbs your theory in any significant way. In my opinion, you’re definitely heading in the right direction.
In many ways, you’re getting to the heart of how one experiences synchronicity. Once a certain weighty moment arrives, we look back and see how every moment of our past seems to have prepared us for that one great moment. In a way, the one great moment “reaches back” and influences our path to it, guiding us in. As you say, it really is as though two “time lines” in different parts of our lives are actually running parallel to one another and interacting with one another on some level.
Obviously I’m in agreement with you… there is “time weirdness” in relation to the show, but it isn’t about “time travel”… it’s about non-linear time. And I think this will remain true regardless of what new “time fiddling” plot devices are yet on the horizon.
Oh rats…too bad that thing with Cooper doesn’t exactly fit. I had forgotten he said his son was dead. There still seems to be something there though. I was thinking that it was somehow important to Ben that Cooper died, because Cooper dieing had some influence on Locke being able to walk, and maybe that will still turn out to be true somehow. I also wonder about Locke surviving Ben shooting him because of the missing kidney—did either Locke or the island want Locke to survive that shooting and therefore caused him in the past to give his father his kidney?
jaz: Awesome theory! I just have to believe this is what Damon and Carlton are making reference to about time on “the island” being different. Along with “The Synchronicity” theories Prof has been writing about, these make the most sense to me. BTW: Thanks for the shout out.
If anyone is interested and wants to look up “retrocausality”, Wikipedia offers an excellent example.
One more thought about Charlie—I think it will turn out that he had something to do with the code at the Looking Glass station being a musical one so that he could be the one who decoded it.
@jaz: love this theory. Why is Jack especially concerned about protecting Kate? Is it as simple as he loves her?
I think maybe it is, and maybe that’s why the writer’s had him say it in the same episode as the flashforward.
OH
MY
GOD.
I think you did it. I think that you really have tapped into some sort of brilliant idea here. I’ve thought about, like, “What if your desires in the future can send a message to yourself in the past?” I think that’s what is happening on the show! I think the flashbacks aren’t just there for character developement, but because they are potentially being altered by the present needs of the person on the island.
Seriously, I would give you more than a +1 if I could. Maybe I’ll get a friend to do it or something. I think that you have figured Lost out, man. Bravo. Wow. Bravo.
One question: did Locke’s dad seem surprised that Locke was walking? If he wasn’t, maybe it’s proof that Locke changed the past.
faliah—thanks so much. I will have to rewatch to answer your Locke question. I’m not sure he did seem surprised. Then again, he thought he was in Hell.
I love point #11. That kind of power would corrupt - and become an obsession if the person wasn’t careful.
Great post Jaz!
Thanks Stip, and I liked the way you described it as power/obsession.