In Support of Gedanken’s Time Travel Model
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By Hanso73
- In Support of Gedanken’s Time Travel Model
- Created: May 27, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 13, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
The numbers themselves are what is known as fractal numbers. The fractal numbers are probably input to maintain the “door #2” of the wormhole
— Hanso73
Hats off to Steve Wynn. I researched the time travel model that he suggested in The Great Gedanken Experiment and wound up convinced that time travel is the basis for the LOST storyline. Here are some of the facts that I discovered that support his model:
I’ve provided links if you’re curious enough to read all of the theory, but I tried to explain a little of each topic in case you didn’t want to read it all at the moment.
Some scientists theorized that time travel is possible through traversable wormholes called Lorentzian Wormholes, aka Morris-Thorne Wormholes as Steve alluded to. In this theory, two “points” in time are joined by two mouths connected to a throat. In particular, LOST seems to center on perturbation superstring theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole#Traversable_wormholes
In perturbation theory, the effects of the first effect are enhanced by the second one. Thus, the time gap would increase by a set amount of time each time the numbers were entered into the computer. The gap widens because the wormhole is moving at a highly accelerated speed at door #1 (the island), thus time moves more slowly in relation to door #2. This is made possible by the electromagnetism and gravitational forces. I have a rough time wrapping my mind around the “slowing of time” stuff, but it’s theory.
The numbers themselves are what is known as fractal numbers. The fractal numbers are probably input to maintain “door #2” of the wormhole.
http://mathforum.org/alejandre/workshops/fractal/fractal3.html
From the above website: “Whether generated by computers or natural process, all fractals are spun from what scientists call a ‘positive feedback loop’. Something - data or matter - goes in one ‘end’, undergoes a given, often very slight, modification, and comes out the other. Fractals are produced when the output is fed back into the system as input again and again.”
And a very insightful look into our numbers shows how they are probably used to closely pinpoint the location of door #2 by defining the x,y,z, AND t coordinates:
http://science.radioelectronics.biz/mathematics2/dimensionalMathematics.html
OR, the numbers may define the shape of the wormhole itself. I need a smart person to decipher that for me! Either way, the numbers appear to be mathematical coordinates. Here are various shapes produced by fractal numbers. Pacal’s modulo looks like the Dharma Initiative octagon, but this could mean nothing:
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke//fractals/
In superstring theory, most theories predict 10 separate dimensions. In order to keep our 4 dimensions (3 spatial and 1 time), the other dimensions are compactified. A scientific term that apparently just means that every point in space time has more dimensions that are “rolled up” until they are too small for us to see.
http://www.sukidog.com/jpierre/strings/extradim.htm
There is way too much theory for me to post here. I guess the clincher for me was the discovery that our numbers are fractal numbers and follow the positive feedback loop. There were numerous mentions of this on time travel sites. Also, there were numerous mentions of 6 dimensional fractal numbers. But rest assured, we can probably still rip other parts of The Great Gedanken Experiment theory to bits. I see ProfOzone has made a good challenge to his theory!
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I agree, a time dimensional aspect is becoming more of a certainty in the storyline. When Desmond turned the key to stop the runaway magnetic storm he did something to the time shift/mechanism that now has to be repaired. It is a possibility that Hanso/Dharma were trying to control this effect for their own greed and Ben and his group were opposed and thus the somewhat violent purge.
Hmmm, good thought. To be truthful, I was a little disappointed to come to the conclusion of time travel. It’s a mess with complicated theory, it has been overdone, and has causal problems. But the truth was staring me in the face. I hope that I’m wrong. But I’m prepared to be thinking about time travel and alternate universes next year. I’ll have to think about your idea some more. It’s an intriguing storyline.
Time travel doesn’t apply since Jack mentions the plane accident when talking to Kate on the last episode. And since Oceanic provide them a “Golden Ticket” taking that into consideration they came back to the present time. Also it seems that Kate is still running and living a second life which implies that she is still living in the current time. I not fond of the time travel theory.
Spot on! The wormhole is the only way that the rescuers can get to the island and they need an exact co-ordinate from the phone to pass through it.
a lot of hardwork here, with a lot of references. never seen a theory here with that amount of literature review. good job..
Thanks firewine. I’ve been sick a couple of days and I have read more theory in the past 2 days than the entire length of the series!
On the Lost mysteries show they did right before the final episode the directors said: (paraphrased) ‘it’s not some sort of purgatory’ & that ‘the Island is somewhere in this time and space.’
covand- correction. They said it is not some sort of purgatory and it is somewhere in the space/time continuum. Which can be anywhere. Basically, he’s saying they are physically alive, not dead.
This has been a very nice read, and solidifies a lot of issues in the gedanken experiment theory. To create a gravitational field to approximate / simulate a blackhole, scientists would need to create a cylinder of light (most probably with lasers), with a spiraling interior. It would look something like this. This also equals tons of mathematical patterns, also mentioned in your theory. The structure could twist light to further make it possible for the particles to move backwards in time. But not earlier than the time the tunnel was activated :D As you’ve stated researching information is half the experience of Lost.
From Lostpedia:
Time Travel
Theory: One or more of the characters traveled in a time machine or went through something that involved time travel (as conventionally related in the science fiction genre).
Debunked by: Damon Lindelof
Source: SciFiWire Interview
Special Notes: Though the writers have said “no time travel” specifically, Damon Lindelof also drops the hint that time may move differently on the island; for example, at Comic Con ‘06, where he responded to one fan’s question with: “It’s interesting that you should ask about time because… you know… you’re making a basic assumption that they’ve been there, y’know, as long as they think they’ve been there.” This controversial theory was “debunked” by Lindelof during the filming of Season 1. He said at the time, “There isn’t any time travel.” However, the events of “Flashes Before Your Eyes” appear to contradict that, and bring into question if the writing of the plot had been “course corrected” also at a later date. The writers could conceivably get around the “no time travel” (in the conventional sense of the word) clause, by evoking the idea of an alternate past/universe.[1]. However, even if one accepts that travelling backward through time one would actually be traveling to the past of an alternate universe, one would still be traveling to a different time (the past of the alternate universe) and so one would still techniquely be time traveling.
In-Show Parody: Referring to a source of a radio transmission that consisted of a Big Band recording from the 1940’s, Sayid said, “It could be coming from anywhere.” Hurley responded, “Or any time. Just kidding, dude.” (“The Long Con”)
Why Producers contradicted this theory: In Flashes Before Your Eyes Desmond did go back in time (producers confirmed it), which means a character did reenter the Island through time travel.
The presence of a wormhole does not mean that the survivors of flight 815 travelled through it. So wouldn’t that fit the writers’ hint that time might move differently on the island and still claim that time travel is not involved?