LOST-Theories.com

I like this theory a lot… at first I assumed Jack was being sarcastic/ironic when he mentioned his father upstairs, but after reading your theory I’m not so sure. I also really like the idea that the “he” kate is referring to is her step-dad. It didn’t cross my mind until you said something.

Totally in agreement with Atheose. At first I thought Jack was just a mistaken drunk but the more I think about it, and based on the episode name itself I believe you are defenitely on to something. Kudos.

Great Post. I didnt even think about “He” being Kate’s Dad. Makes me think more. I was thinking that Jack was having a vision but this makes a lot more sense. I was trying to figure out why Kate wouldnt be in Jail but this all ties together nicely. Its killing me to know who was in that coffin.

The only thing I’m getting caught up on is if this is somehow a parallel universe, then how did Kate and Jack meet, how did they get off the island, how did they know it was a mistake. I find it hard to believe that the producers would start a new season with 2 simultaneous plots of the same people in different universes.

I don’t know, this seems awful farfetched to me. That said, Kate should be in prison… Unless, this is like… 40 years later and Kate has served her sentence… Jack did make sure to tell the chief of surgery that he had worked at that hospital for a long time…

HtheB, I don’t think there will be 2 plot lines or two universes. Rather, when they get off the island the world they come back to will be as if the things that led them to the island had never happened. And I think they’ve already been able to show that time lines are altered in the different versions of Desmond’s backstory.

As the title implies connections to the book “Through the looking glass”, can Jack live backwards? Would the events in the flash-forwards stop him from making the call and leaving the island? Desmond had a similar experience……..

This is an interesting idea, jaz.

You beat me to it.

Furthermore : I think that Jacob is Jack comming back from “our reality” to try to make himself not doing this call and get rescued.

makes sense, nah ?

malice

Wow! This is a great theory! I love it!

Wow, very interesting. Kate is not warm to Jack because he is obsessed with going back. Kate is very happy that she gets a “do-over.” She’s not a wanted criminal, she now has a relationship with her mother, and her family back, although it may not be the ideal circumstances. When she killed her step father, she thought her mother would be so happy and free. Instead she lost everything, even her mother’s love - all she really had. Ever look back at something you did and think to yourself, “that didn’t turn out the way I wanted and if I could only do it over”? That seems to be the them with everyone on the island, but for Kate, it’s much more a reality because she definitely knows what her life would be like if she didn’t kill her step father. She would have all she needs - her mothers love.

What does jack have? His Dad back. Sawyer? Probably nothing but a con of a life. Kate and Jack could have made a deal with the people who brought them back, not knowing what the future would be. Kate now sees Jack as pathetic for wanting to break that arrangment and go back. “He” might be a prominent part of the group that conducted the rescue on certain terms.

Anyway, you posted an awesome theory and my imagination will only branch off from there!

Very interesting! No idea how likely it is, but it certainly is creative and well thought-out. I dig it! :)

Wow.. ok this happens to deasmond he is taken back before he leaves on 815 and wants to stay and mary his girl.. but is told not to… if leaving the island not through the right way sends you back to a certain time, like someone said everyone gets a second chance some how in an altered reality then the one they left… As if to leave the island and stay on the same time line or reality you have to leave a certain way… like through the Sub… my mind is spinning from this show.. I CAN NOT WAIT FOR NEW episodes!!!

RIGHT ON MALICE! Jack is a variation of Jacob. I agree totally…

The thing im wondering about is when jack read that peace of papper he got sad and then he called kate. so if its like you say and there fathers are still alive and so, who is it she got alittle angry over and said “why would i go to the funeral” and why woudl jack be sad over that same person? im clueless here O_O

Nick, I don’t know whose funeral it is—but I’m sure it’s neither one of their fathers. Also, rereading my post I realize I mispoke at one point—I referred to Kate’s stepfather, but it’s her father, Wayne, that she killed in the original backstory and who I think is now alive. One thing about Jack reading the piece in the paper—he was already distraught; the person who died made him feel hopeless/suicidal. So whoever it is—I don’t think he feels this way because he was close to that person, but because that person was the only way he saw of getting back to the island. Given that, I guess I would go with some other people’s guesses and say it was Ben.

Marcus, I completely forgot that I had a theory ‘bout a week ago—”Leaving the Island—Through the Looking Glass”—that if they left the island any other way than with the sub and using the looking glass station they would wind up altering the time line. D’oh (slap) can’t even keep track of my own theories. :)

Jack is deperate to get back, but I don’t think they can get back by crashing again, or by finding the island on a map. I think that when Jack gets back to the island, he will do so by waking up back on the island and making a different choice.

Jazprof:

I’m thinking the same thing the flashfoward was only a possiblity not a certain.

Ben is very very very sneaky, he had his whole trek to the command tower planned to point of fake shooting jacks friends and getting pummled…

And whats the Temple Ben talked about and he didn’t go… and went by himself to jack as if he was sacrifcing himself….

The whole thing with Jack being Jacob kinda doesn’t make sense… cause Ben has been talking to jacob for years and years it seems…

And who was it that Ben saw as a child when he saw his mother?

@marcusd Ben is sneaky, but I think that trick with having his cronies shoot in the sand was the absolutley last trick up his sleave. He actually seemed to have terror in his eyes and a sense of failure. He is a gambler and very good. He plays on peoples emotions and tries to feed off their weaknesses, or what he feels to be their weaknesses. His “private” conversation with Jack would be the only way he felt he could really manipulate him - playing on his need to lead everyone to safety. Just a thought….

Anyone see a date on the news paper or anywhere in the flash forward?

I love your theory jaz!

I think you’re right on about it being Kate’s real dad, Wayne she needs to get back to. One other thing I thought about was the name in the newspaper. Since this is not a name we recognize, and Jack, Christian and Kate are going by they’re real names, it would make sense to me that the only person who wouldn’t be using his real name would be none other than Sawyer, who is still wanted for murder.

Just read on the Dark UFO site that the newspaper was identified as the April 5, 2007 LA Times.

@jazprof, i also have a feeling that the person was ben, from kates reaction, and from the fact that jacks so desperate to get back to the island. also the fact that nobody besides jack came, like all his lies finally caught up to him, to the point that when he died, there was nobody left (except for a desperate, drugged up jack) who would care at all for his death.

with regard to leaving the island a cetain way. eg via the submarine, perhaps the fact that they didnt come to the island through that way means that however they leave, they will disrpt time in some way, which is why ben is willing to put himself through so much, just to makesure that they dont leave.

Wow, you are a genius.

If kate never killed her father then she wouldn’t have been on the run and would never have gone to australia. If Jack’s dad was still alive then he never would have gone either. These two events are what put these two on the island, and jack obviously could not be wanting to go back to a place he had never been.

I have to say that at first I was stoked about the Kate’s dad still being alive theory but after a few minutes it just doesn’t wash: First off - Jack professed his love for Kate: He’d certainly take care of “dad” and defend Kate…Kate is an adult: She certainly doesn’t have a “curfew” or a need to be home at her father’s behest…and as we’ve seen time and again, Kate is/was as capable as any of the leading men (i.e.- Jack, Sawyer, Sayid) to “take care of business” on her own… I’m additionaly troubled by her vehicle of choice: Kate - driving a Volvo?! Doesn’t seem likely given her character and what I imagine to be the family background…just too suburban-ish for my taste… Anyone else note that Kate looked a wee bit “bloated” and made up…? Not the HOT island gal we’ve come to love…

Very nice theory! I like it. I had thought Jack was a bit bonkers, but your explanation is much better. It goes along with my thoughts that we’re seeing alternate realities.

I love this theory. It’s right along the lines of what I was thinking, I just couldn’t put it together this nicely! I’m new to this site so forgive me if this has already been brought up, but there’s something I’ve been going over. It’s interesting that when we first meet Ben he goes by the alias “Henry Gail” AKA Uncle Henry Gail from the Wizard of Oz (finished off nicely by the hot air balloon). However, it looks as though Jacob is the “man behind the curtain”. Which, in following the references would not be who he appears to be.

This seems very possible. it’s the only plausable theory as to why in the flashforward kate is not in prison. ‘She is not a murderer’ am i the only one who is concerned that if they are off the island in season 4. it could ruin lost?

Interesting, but I can’t really get behind it (and the altered timeline idea) because it doesn’t answer the connection between that time period and the island. Assuming they all knew what happened, but events unfolded and turned out differently (Christian is alive and so is Wayne)…where did the Golden Pass come from that Jack mentions…and why would he assume that getting back there would change anything. The only thing I can see in support is that he simply wants to get away and that Oceanic is still in business in contrary to what people have said about them going out of business.

I think the whole alternate time would be a cop out by the writers…I think ultimately it’s something they will debunk if they haven’t already (although the possibility of the “flash forward” being the true future is a possibility…maybe they never get off of the island…that’s just one perception of it perhaps.)

Also…why would Wayne wonder where Kate is and why would she care? She’d likely still hate him…and I wouldn’t be surprised if she just killed him again…and Christian is bound to die sometime…so the events would just fold over on themselves and be inevitable…and no, i’m not suggesting this is a flash back…I whole heartedly believe it to be a flash forward.

test, I’m assuming that the island is outside of linear time. If that assumption is false, then yes, all of your objections would hold. What I was thinking might have happened in the above scenario is that Jack & Kate make it off the island (perhaps as the only survivors) and there really was a crash (thus the golden ticket) but they come back to an altered future in which the things that put them on 815 never happened.

The reason I thought it might be Wayne is that I thought Kate sounded frightened of this “he” and my assumption of the relation between her father and her was that Kate was being sexually/physically threatened by him in her backstory and that this dynamic would continue if she came back and he was alive.

I think I’m leaning more toward the “he” being someone else at the moment though. I think that what people desire on the island, especially certain people (like Walt, Locke, Ben, Jack?) can affect what happens in the outside world. I think the thing Jack desires most is to have Kate rescued and for her to have a safe and normal life. I think that is what we see in the flashforward—but that Jack didn’t realize that his wish would have unforseen consequences for everyone else. maybe everyone else died as a result of his wish. If you’re interested that more recent theory is “Changing the Past w/o Time Travel or One’s Heart’s Desire.”

If this theory is true how do Kate and Jack even know each other? If they went back and changed the past, then the event that led to them meeting would never have happened, and therefore they would not know each other after the fact. Nor would they even remember being on the island, therefore Jack could not be obsessed at going back. By his lunacy, obviously they DID crash on the island, they got off the island, and that’s where Jack gets in hysterics about going back. If Jack’s dad had not died, if Kate had not gotten arrested, they wouldn’t have been on the plane.

Theory debunked.

The theory isn’t debunked if there are alternate timelines. On one timeline they crash on the island. The island is outside of time. They do something on the island which causes the things which brought them to the island not to have happened, but Jack and Kate still remember each other because they are from the timeline where the crash did happen.

By your reasoning, when Desmond went back in time he should never have remembered Charlie because he hadn’t met Charlie yet. The episode “Flashes Before Your Eyes” has raised the possibility of alternative time lines. I’m not saying this is the way it will play out, but I am saying it isn’t disproved by trying to stick to a completely realistic explanation of what is happening.

I don’t know about this one because how would Jack get his lifetime pass on Oceanic Air?

how could you say that about sawyer? he has never hit kate he was willing to die for her when they were captured he is not going to become abusive, Kate wouldn’t stand for that

Definitely VERY interesting. When I watched the episode and Kate said, “I’ve got to get back, he’ll be wondering where I am,” I immediately thought she was referring to her stepfather and then I was therefore met with confusion. I knew the scene was in the future, and that her stepfather was dead. This theory does an amazing job mending this conflict and providing an explanation for Jack’s mentioning of his father. It also explains why life for everyone post-island is hellish. It seems that all the events leading these individuals to be on the plane were, indeed, their fate. Some individuals (Jack vs. Kate, for example) seem to recognize that things happened as they were supposed to and that reversing the events prior to the crash is bad news.

It does seem possible that this is a glimpse of the future but not one that will actually take place. Perhaps we are being shown what could have happened, a possibility, but what doesn’t actually unfold. It will certainly be interesting to see how these forward flashes continue and are explained.

Additionally, if Jack’s father and Kate’s stepfather aren’t dead, would that also mean that Locke’s father was never killed by Sawyer? If so, perhaps Locke is the man who killed himself—whose obituary Jack held. Locke would be a very depressed man had his father never been killed and I could imagine him being in a state to commit suicide.

This is all dependent upon the state in which things are being reversed (“through the looking glass” senerio). I can’t imagine Locke voluntarily leaving the island, however. So why would he be the mysterious deceased?

I might be stating the obvious, but humor me, earlier in the episode Kate said they had to go back to the beach to get Sayid, Jin, and Bernard. They had to go back to save them. That is what Jack is saying at the end of the episode. What if not everyone got off the island? What if Jack and Kate, and possibly others, made some kind of deal to get off the island, but in the process, screwed over some of the other people in the crew. Jack’s not saying they have to go back to chill on the beach. He is saying they have to go back to make things right, not because he misses being in charge. I think he is depressed because he knew he made a mistake by leaving people he loved on the island, and people thinking he is some kind of hero is killing him inside. Also, Kate was in a hurry when she met Jack. She didn’t want “He” to know she was gone. Kate is a grown woman. Do you really think her stepfather would care if she left to go out at night? Why would she have to be sneaky about it? She’s not 16 waiting for her parents to go to sleep to sneak out. Maybe she fell in love with the person responsible for getting her off the island, and he doesn’t want her talking to Jack.

Jack looked like a junkie. He was probably trying to see if his dads name would work so he could get some drugs.

the HE that kate may be refering to is a new person-boyfriend/husband. they are in the “witness protection program” and she isn’t supose to see jack nor anybody else from the island, and also never talk about the island to anybody. it was the only way to get off the island. that is why she didn’t want to go to the funeral and why she was in a hurry. the new boyfriend doesn’t know Kate’s real idenity.

simple explanation, but she did look disgusted when she answered the question to if she was going to go to the funeral.

jazprof

The ep Flashes Before Your Eyes does not bring in alternate realities. It’s simply Desomnd seeing the future but acting on it to change it. That doesn’t equal alternate realities. That’s just water cooler talk that fans threw in.

Re your theory: How can you have “alternate timelines” but then say the island is “outside of time”? The island has to exist in one (or more) of those timelines, in order to exist at all. You say they did something on the island to change what happened in the past, but in the past of which timeline? If you say there are alternate timelines, then you don’t “change” anything in a particular timeline, you just enter a different timeline. And if there are alternate timelines, then every possible scenario happens. But if every possible scenario happens, then what makes the one we are watching so important? What makes this one the “real” timeline? If alternate timelines exist then there is no “real” timeline.

Crbolosan,

The reason why I thought there had to be alt time lines after “Flashes” is that Desmond had lived through one timeline in which he never met Mrs. Hawking and in which the bartender got hit with the cricket bat—then in Flashes he does meet Mrs. Hawking and Des is the one who gets hit by the cricket bat. I didn’t see how this could be explained by Des seeing the future because if time can only unfold in one way then how could he have lived through one future and then changed it. Even with Charlie—the fact that he saw Charlie get an arrow through the neck, isn’t that the unfolding of one future, and then Desmond causes another one to happen? Maybe I don’t understand what the term alternate timelines means, but what I’m suggesting is that there is a reality in which Charlie died by getting an arrow through the neck (reality A), Desmond saw this but changed it so that he is now in reality B—where he saved Charlie from the arrow. So about Jack’s Dad being alive—In the past that Jack lived through, Christian Shephard died. While on the island, he did something that changed his own past and now his father is alive.

That said, I will say that ProfO’s post on Desmond (“You’ve got to lift it up”) made me see a possible explanation for the fact that Des meets/doesn’t meet Mrs. Hawking, does/doesn’t get hit with the cricket bat. I’m definitely not thinking that my idea is anything but speculation and won’t be at all surprised if the Christian Shephard comment by Jack in TTLG was just the writers pulling, well, my chain anyway. :)

Kate always runs and always hides so just because she isnt in jail you cant really assume shes not wanted anymore, but its a good theory

jazprof

I understand your point on seeing the future means it happens, it the usual foresight dilemma. But two thing I want to bring up.

Just because Desmond “sees” those things, doesn’t mean they actually happen. Perhaps he just “sees” what MAY happen, sort of like a prediction. It’s the same arguement I had with the show Millennium and Profiler. The only way to portray it on television is for them to show Desmond “seeing” those things. But in a show like Profiler, the idea is a theorized prediction, meaning that the person doesn’t actually SEE that thing happening (tho I’m not saying that’s exactly what happens with Desmond). There is obviously something more with Des, for instance he knew that arrow trap would be there, that’s not something he could have predicted/theorized.

Second, the way I see these “changing the future scenarios” is this. Think of it as writing something down with a pen then changing it using white out. You don’t write two things down on seperate pieces of paper (seperate realities), you simply erase what happens by changing the past/present. I know, it comes down to how you view the whole time/existence function. But what I see is that there is only one timeline, that timeline can have many possible endings, but those possibilities aren’t (alternate) realities. They only become the reality when they happen.

So basically Desmond “sees” what would happen if no action is taken, it’s not that he sees an alternate reality.

Ahhh, good illustration crb. Do you think that white out function only works forward, or do you think there’s some whiting out of the past going on?

This is probably the most accurate post, however, this does not explain any mysteries of the island itself. Even though returning “home” might have meant changing their pasts which led to getting them on the plane, why was Walt (who apparently returned “home” at the beginning of season 2) still on the island and seen talking to Locke?

HE could be Kate’s little nipper.

Read a lot of theories on it being Dharma/Widmore security… ‘Them’, ‘Hostiles’, an abusive boyfriend. But watching the episode and her little spat with James, don’t you think it could be a little nod towards her future?

Generally on Lost though, I’ve really gotten into this idea of being shown things that have not yet been brought to our attention, as opposed to obsessing over details. There’s so many red herrings it’s brain melting…

On the Desmond issue:

He was simply dreaming which also served as the episode’s flashback. The island/jacob/etc. communicated with him during his concussion.

His proximity to the energy release at the time of the 2nd incident could in fact have caused his psychic abilities. This ties in with the 7th seal theory (anyone?) to an extent.

Note: I’ve broken my replies to two parts due to space constraints:

the episode “Flashback before your eyes” does in fact open up a possibility of an alternate time line. Otherwise Desmond would have never guessed that the person was Charlie. The odd/confusing thing here was Desmond alone goes back through time. (Do not question the mindf* of this, as it is, Lost is one big mindnumbing show), but I feel in the Desmond episode, Des does go back to the fall at his apartment. Do you notice his reaction when he wakes up? He’s stunned, he kisses Penny like he’s seeing her for the first time.

The main reason why I strongly have to advocate and support Jaz’s point is the fact that Des eventually comes to find out that He MUST do it, even though this might be his second chance, he knows there’s no running away from it.

Come on, he’s lived in that apartment so long, why would the sound of his microwave suddenly alert him? Why would the number 1:08 suddenly catach his attention. The photograph of him and penny? It was that same picture that Des had, meaning to say Penny could have chosen another background, or not taken the picture, but their picture was taken, meaning history was to take place accordingly, Desmond knew he couldn’t do it because he had a bigger purpose, a world to save in the future. As absurd as it sounds, he just couldn’t bring himself to continue living on. Because it would indirectly send him to that island no matter what.

And How the heck would he know Charlie in the first place?

Think about it, if that whole episode did already happened in the past, won’t Des be able to identify Charlie when he met him in the hatch? Like how he identified Jack when he first met him in the hatch? That meeting up with Charlie happened in a timeline obviously before the crash. Remember desmond had been on the island for 3 years prior to the gang crashing in.

The part in the pub is easy to explain. Des had been there before, that’s why he knew it. It’s at that same time line, (where he saw the football game for the first time) was also the same time he saw Charlie but didn’t make anything of it.

Part 2: continuation of my previous comment:

I believe there are 3 parts to this conclusion:

a) He was given a second chance, as much as he wanted to change his second chance, to be with Penny, fate had led him to that hatch. There was nothing he could do. Why else would the old lady talk Desmond out of it? Why would she convince him that he was meant to push the button? And that whole scene with Charlie, if you watched the episode, when Des tries to recall where he met Charlie, a scene goes to the hatch, just right before he turns the key. (Charlie pops out asking Des whether he needs any help? - remember moments BEFORE DES TURNS THE KEY!!!!)

b)THe whole scene was just to prove a point that there was nothing Desmond could do IF he did have a chance.

c) It was just a dream. He imploded and had a dream/vision.

BUT remember DES GOT THE FLASH ONLY AFTER the explosion. otherwise HE WOULD HAVE SAVED ANA-LUCIA and LIBBY from michael.

In a wierd sense, the implosion caused Des to go back in time (a mindf* which cannot be explained until the season sheds some light on this) and gave Des the ability to predict the future. In a way it’s sorta like a consolation price, how else would Des “save the world” once the hatch had exploded? There would be no buttons to press.

So in a way, he was given this powerful gift. Remember without that gift, Naomi wouldnt have been found, she would have just died, and they would have just been stuck in the island. Desmond’s gift of seeing the future is the next greatest thing he will do. (1st being pushing the button).

3Guys, I agree with you for the most part, especially the point about Charlie; why would he not recognize him? I think though that Des does have the possibility of doing something else when Mrs. Hawking steps in. If events were determined so strongly that he had to wind up at the hatch turning the failsafe key, then Mrs. Hawking would not have had to speak to him. Things woul have happened that way without interference. So I think the fact that she interferes suggests that the past can be changed. I don’t think this necessitates time travel in the sense of traveling backward on the timeline. Rather, I think the linearity of time is connected to human consciousness and perspective and that something about the electromagnetism release allows people to sometimes overcome the limits of that perspective. That’s why Desmond’s flashes are preceded by unconsciousness; I also think that’s why Juliet had to be unconscious to come to the island; and I think Jack’s having blacked out prior to 815 crashing is going to be important.

I do like the theory of the ‘flash-forwards’ being something more. It seems completely out of place that for the entirety of three seasons there were only flashbacks, but now suddenly there are flash-forwards. The concept of exploring what might have happened had they not crashed, or possibly not even had been on the plane seems just the thing the writers would do. And the time-travel bit, I admit I was a bit shaky on it at first, but now i really think you guys may be onto something. Especially with Desmond’s time-travel in ‘Flashes Before Your Eyes’. It was obvious that was more than a mere flashback, because of how Desmond reacted to being there.

However the fact that Des can now see the future seems to support the many time lines theory. Perhaps he is seeing the future because he has already lived it? It’s not so much as seeing the future as it is remembering it?

yeah like this +1

So, they crash on the island and remember things they’ve done in the past, and regreted them. but really, now that they’re on the island, none of those things have happened because everything else off the island went back in time. so, when they get off the island, since none of those things have happened, they get a second chance to keep it that way. Hence why kate isnt wanted (like someone mentioned), and also why locke isnt in a wheelchair anymore on the island (because his accident never happened even though he remembers getting pushed out of a building)

haha does that make sense? it does in my head, but it’s hard to get into words.

Awesome theory, btw :)

this theory has me actually believing the flashforward; that thing confuesed me so much because it had so much conflicting facts, such as Jack’s dad being alive and Oceanic airlines still being in buisness. Your theory supports all the facts in the flashforward making it more understandable.

Curious theory, however…

Even if true and kate didn’t kill her stepfather, why would she, or HE, care about her being gone for a while? He wasn’t married to her, but rather her mother. Even knowing what it would mean to NOT kill him, I still don’t see Kate putting up with that kind of crap from him. She would have just let it go and gotten out of their lives. She is not the type of woman to accept that kind of treatment.

Bixby!! Thank God someone else agrees with me. There’s NO WAY Kate is driving a Volvo yet is still controlled by Wayne. Things are too deliberate for the writers to just pick a car at random for Kate to drive. Had she never killed her step father, the love of her life (the doctor - can’t remember the name) would have never been killed, and she would be with him. That’s who she’s worried will notice she’s gone!!. Doesn’t it make more sense for head-strong Kate to be driving a Volvo, (most likely) pregnant by her sensible, doctor husband, than her to be so practical as to buy a Volvo (and successful enough to afford a new Volvo), yet she can’t walk away from her abusive step-father??

Great theory! Makes a lot of sense and doesn’t require the tedious explanations required of the ‘Jack is Jacob in the past’ idea…the characters could well be doomed by the reversal of their fates…Regardless of who Kate’s ‘he’ actually is, she could easily be suffering at his hands; not killing Wayne may have lead to her ending up in a bad relationship…or maybe it is Wayne controlling her, who knows. Maybe the island is their destiny and in attempting to tamper with destiny/future (by leaving the island and undoing their wrongs) they have doomed themselves to miserable lives and untimely deaths somehow….the universe seems to always catch up on them (as with Charlie’s inability to avoid death).

I dissagree with this theory, simply because of the fact that if the things in the past didn’t happen, none of them would have even been on the flight. You cannot change the past. This was adressed in “Flashes”. Even when Desmond had the chance to make the better choice, he couldn’t. and things ended up the same

However, the future is not perminent. Desmond keeps saving Charlie, even though his foresight is telling him Charlie will die. Even though fate catches up to him eventually, not all of Desmond’s visions came to pass.

They did not go back in time, because if they had, they wouldn’t even know eachother existed.

I don’t think alternate timelines is a satisfactory explanation for the show. I hope the writers are able to avoid a deus ex machina ending for the show, which is what alternate timelines would have to be.

I do think the He is the doctor that got killed, or that the scene was a flashback, not forward. Do we really know Kate and Jack don’t know each other? Couldn’t Jack and Kate’s paths have overlapped while Jack and Kate’s love were in med school? I just don’t think there is any conclusive evidence to argue one way or the other.

I disagree with your theory simply because —> why would Kate have to get back to her stepfather? The way she said it made it seem like this person would a) be very annoyed that she is talking to Jack again or b) just doesn’t want her to be gone for awhile. Neither one would be true for her stepfather. Also keep in mind that we don’t know if those flash forwards place them in the past. Jack’s comment about his father could have just been a fun twist by the writers.

Okay, so this is my first post - so please, be kind… I think the “he” is Kate’s son. She got pregnant on the island, had the kid after they were rescued, and is a mom (hence the Volvo and make-up). There’s no big scary man in the picture - just her son who’s probably really young (maybe still a baby and she’s breastfeeding???) and will be wondering where she is if he wakes up in the middle of the night and she isn’t there. Thoughts???? (Too simple???)

Actually, alohagirl, that makes a lot of sense. However, does she live by herself, or is she married? She wouldn’t leave her baby alone, would she?

Nevertheless, very simple and straigtforward; I like it.

I have a few thoughts on this. First of all, I think the theory is very creative, I never would have thought of it. So Kudo’s to you! However I don’t completely agree. I’m more inclined towards Kate having a baby waiting at home and if she can now afford a Volvo, she can afford a nanny or babysitter or maybe there is a He there looking after the baby. One more point, about the Oceanic Golden Pass. Many of you are saying they went out of business after the crash, but did they? Was that ever on the show or was that just on the blogs?

Kate is still Married to the man she had to “Drug” so she could get back on the run.

That is the same man she is going back to the nite she & jack meet up with each other.

Jack, kate & whoever returning back to the Future collide into there Future selfs causing some kind of crazy time rift.

Makes sense for Kate - there was only one man chasing her & he is dead(no need to run anymore)

Jacks drug problem could be cause of him not taking his appropriate shots “4,8,15,16,23,42”

Which he never nor the other survivors never got a Orientation on, unlike Ben & the rest.

Just a thought - J

Mmmm…. maybe, but when Kate refers to “He” sounds like someone Jack also knows. She’s an adult, doesn’t have to explain herself to anyone, unless…u’re married…with “He” …and like I said “He” sounds like someone Jack knows.

But, If this going back in time also implies correcting some stuff, it could be that guy from Kate’s childhood, u know (don’t remember his name).

the most logical explanation is that Jack didn’t tell anyone about finding his dad dead—too hard to tell his mom after the crash and all. As junkie jack takes over he steals his dad’s rx pad and writes his own scripts.

I think the “he” Kate refers to is her son. Remember that Ben said that Austen (Kate) will also become pregnant, that she will soon be another subject to make Juliet work on. Probably with sawyer, cause remember the chanses of getting pregnant in the island was multiplied by 5. Jack goes to somebodys funeral, yet he was the only one who went. I do not know whos funeral it is…the thing we know is that jack was the only person who went. I dont think its sawyers cause people on the island or even kate could have gone to the funeral. I liked the idea of him being ben, and that jack cried because he was the only person who could bring him back to the island. This flash foward could be just somebodys dream, possibly jacks…we dont know if this flash will really occur. Thanks for reading… Sorry if my english isnt good enough…im from Argentina…and im still learning…

l337jacqui, I understand what you’re getting at and it sounds pretty plausible. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I seem to recall that every time Locke strayed from his path, purpose or fate (w/e) he lost the ability to walk again. I don’t know whether this has something to do with the altering of the past, or that it is the powers of the island influencing this.

One thing has become abundantly clear however: time is becoming a very important theme in the coming seasons.

One could state that it always has been an important theme due to the many flashbacks. Desmond’s new powers however, and the fact that he seemed to have gone back in time and was also given the chance to change things (judging by the fact that an ‘oracle’ appeared, Hawkings), leads me to believe that there’s going to be a lot of messing around with timelines (perhaps alternate ones like the OP mentioned).

I really feel that it was fate for the plane to crash, and all of the survivors have a certain fate. Straying from the path to their fate will lead to bad things. Jack’s flashforward being the proof.

+1 I like it! Very nice Jaz!

I like it this “do over” theory. This explains the results (the what). Now we must know the why and the how they got a do over!

This is one of the better theories and I’ve been thinking about it since Desmond revealed his ability to “see” the future. And I do understand how people can be skeptical especially since it gives rise to several questions. But I found an article that put everything into perspective. It’s lengthy but very thorough.

http://www.powells.com/blog/?p=2110

It explains Hermann Minkowski’s theory on Space/Time and how all time is happening at once. What if Desmond’s accident gave him the capacity to see time happening “at once”? If that is the case, then every time he saved Charlie, he was not only changing the future but changing the past as well.

It does seem far out, until it points out that the man on the freighter answered “Minkowski” when Jack called.

I agree with most of this but I think the “he” is her old boyfriend that died the day she was running from the cops, in the “flash froward” she is driving that his car…a Mercedes I think!

@lostintennessee: great minds think alike:

http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jun/11/jazprofs-he-and-price-redempti/

This is very similar to my own theory about the flash-forward sequence.

I have one thing to add about who is in the coffin, in keeping with jazprof’s time-line concept.

I believe that Michael is in the coffin. The screen shots from the newspaper clipping all point to Michael. I think that Michael also got a do-over when he left the island. He went back to the time of the legal battle with Walt’s mom and chose not to sign over his parental rights. Instead, he changed his name, took Walt, and has been on the run. At some point, Walt turns on his father. I think it’s because Michael lies about Walt’s mother, maybe telling him that she’s dead (Walt would be young, see below). Tired of running and the lies, Walt contacts his mother to let her know how to find them. Now that Walt wants nothing more to do with his father, Michael has nothing left to live for, so he commits suicide. The reason Walt was not at the funeral is that he is now with his mother. She would certainly have no reason to attend after Michael had committed such a serious act of custodial interference. Michael would have to go so far back into the time-line for his do-over that Walt would not be old enough to recall the island events as it seems everyone else in the flash-forward does.

Jack weeps at the funeral because Michael is the only one that left the island via traditional transportation (boat). Jack and Kate got off through one of the other different ways already mentioned in the comments (like flann’s idea) so they have no way of getting back. That also explains Jack’s desperate attempt to get back by flying overseas repeatedly hoping the plane will crash.

The one major problem I’ve been trying to figure out is the golden ticket. It ocurred to me that Jack did not say “the golden ticket that Oceanic gave us” he said “the golden ticket that they gave us”. If Jack and Kate avoid the 815 crash then “they” would not be Oceanic. So I suggest that the “they” who gave them the golden ticket is someone else. Perhaps it’s whomever they made a deal with to get off the island. Perhaps it’s part of a compensation package to buy Jack and Kate’s silence about the island.

Hi this comment doesnt really have anything to do with the theory…But did anyone else feel resentful of jack in the first two seasons cuz he just seemed to take charge? I mean who died and made him boss. And why didnt people stand up to him? Anyway because of jack’s behaviour i dislike him. Oh this is an awesome theory by the way i get where you’re coming from…

sigh (me)

I really like the theory, but don’t think the ‘he’ is Kate’s dad. She seems to have accepted her present situation and be a little sad but ok with it. She could still be on the run though (as she looked really different) or maybe the ‘he’ is a high profile man and therefore she has to look a certain way. Maybe thats not the point and it is simply Jack seeing that if they leave the island he will be miserable and will not be with Kate. Maybe its about him choosing to leave knowing that he will be miserable in the future. On a different tangent. At the funeral, Jack seemed suprised that no-one was there, so maybe its not Ben’s funeral.

3Guys1Baby,

I think it’s pretty clear that Desmond did not travel back in time, physically. I believe the implosion and electromagnetic energy caused Desmond’s “mind/subconscious” to travel back in time. Basically, it was our Desmond connecting mentally with an earlier Desmond. This is why Desmond can recognize Charlie. We get a big bang from the implosion and Desmond is sent back in time. He is then hit with a boulder and is sent back. Basically snapping his subconscious back in place. I believe that was a one time deal because of the implosion. But his mind is in a constant fluctuation when it comes to his precognitive abilities. Just like his subconscious went to the past, his mind is able to fluctuate to different times. So Desmond’s sees Charlie getting electrocuted by lightning but prevents it causing the universe to course correct itself which causes Desmond’s to see another vision of Charlie drowning and then being hit in the throat by an arrow etc.

Like Ms. Hawking said, even if he prevented the man from dying, he would have died another way because the universe has a way of course correcting. In the original time line, Charlie dies by being electrocuted but because of Desmond saving him, the universe finds another way to kill Charlie, by drowning. But Desmond again, saves him causing this on going pattern. It’s not really a vision, it’s his subconscious connecting with a future Desmond seeing these things happen which is why he’s able to prevent it but again, in the long run, he can’t. Eventually, Charlie will die, which he does.

As for the HE Kate is referring to. I doubt it’s her son. Her son would be 2-3 years old if she had one. Kate said something like “He’ll be waiting for me” in a sad tone. Her son wouldn’t be sitting up at night at the kitchen table waiting for her. That just sounds weird. The HE Kate is referring to is either someone we don’t know, or Kevin. Or it could be her father or Tom.

Just my observation.

“I believe that Michael is in the coffin”

We are assuming Michael and Walt have gotten OFF the Island, But did they get AWAY from the Island? Desmond was floating around on his sailboat for nearly a month, he could not find the bearings to get away from the island itself. The overall theory is ok, but it gets hairy for the viewers. I think the writers/producers are going to make it intellectual for us without going overboard. A ” Ahh i should have thought of that” moment will be in it for all of us. Also, Lets not assume that everyone did in fact leave the Island tho. I am sure Locke , Bernard and his wife(name?), Rouseau, her daughter, and Ben at least are still residing on the Island. All of them have no reason to be rescued or nowhere to go if rescued. As for Kate, I think she is no longer on the run, her car was nice, her clothing was in good order, and she was not in a hurry to be leaving other than the reason of getting back to “him”, which could be a son with Sawyer or Sawyer himself. Not many people would leave a 3 or 4 year old alone at home for long (presumably sleeping without knowing she was out) hence the need to get back, as well as Sawyer most likely wouldnt appreciate Kate seeing Jack if they had sprouted a relationship. I do like L8O1S5T ‘s ideas about desmond, and the idea of the one time only hatch implosion. Course still hoping for a Des style redo.

Makes sense! It always troubled me why Jacks father was alive (never doubted he was allthough Jack’s drunk in the FFWD)… I haven’t read posts in a while but it still leaves a lot of questions open ‘bout the why and how it happened. Redemption is a big issue though on the show. Writing that I remember Ben saying something about “We’re the good guys”. And he got a point with Saywer a con, Kate a murderer, Sayid a torturer even before they where on the island. I’m going to make it all bubble on in my head for a while! Cheers!

Strong, smart, confident 30 year old women don’t live with or answer to their daddies. And they don’t have curfews.

If you want a twist worthy of Lost, how about this: Kate is eager to get back to her new husband… the U.S. Marshall.

Awesome theory thats gonna play on my mind for a while ill have to watch that last episode again.

The producers said that what we see in de FF is de real future and that future will happen. So the “he” can not be Wayne, because he’s dead. Jack’s dad is also dead. He only mentioned his father because a) he was high b) that people will think that it was a flashback, and only know it was a FF in the last scene with Kate.

I personally think that the “he” is Sawyer. And the man in the coffin is Locke. My sister and I watch the show always together and she made a comment about Locke, a few weeks before we watched the season finale. She said that if Locke is ever forced to leave the Island, he probably kill himself. I agreed with her right away.

Also we don’t know if Kate is still a fugitive. Maybe she is beeing cleared of all charges of something. We have to wait until next FF to know that. There is spoiler about that. But I’m new on this forum. So I don’t know if I can mention spoilers in this post.

Jack’s father still being alive. Kate no longer a fugitive. Those two pieces of logic alone make this simplistic yet brilliant idea feel completely right. +1

this is a sick theory but if it is a different universe how did jack and kate meet each other and y does jack want to go back to the island is he wasnt ever there

i think i found a picture of kate getting married in one of the flashforwards, but i may be wrong, its a little bit blurry…but i think it looks ALOT like kate, i have a screenshot but dont know how to show it

Ok I’m not reading every comment just to see if someone else said this but let me make a point. Why would the “he” be her step-father? If she truly got a do-over then the orignal man she loved, whom was shot by the cops because she wouldn’t just pull over and give herself up, wouldn’t be dead. If the theory is correct and they all did get do-overs, chances are she would be back with him. That explains the nice car after only being back on the mainland for such a short time. She wasn’t rich, neither was Sawyer. I mean Jack never even tried to get a crazy expensive car. Went and got the first thing he saw basically. I just think if they got a do-over its not her step father or sawyer. If they didn’t get a do-over its gotta be sawyer. Just makes sense.

Great theory! I agree with most of it. However I think that the “HE” Kate refers to is the cop husband she had, Kevin. I read somewhere that the writers planned to bring him back in season 4 so it would make sense.

Also, I think the man in the coffin could be Michael. It makes sense that he would commit suicide after all the horrible things he did to get him and Walt off the island.

I read an article that said episode 7 of season 4 will be a Jin/Sun focus and that it will be one of the most shocking reveals for Lost. Elizabeth Mitchell who plays Juliet said in an interview that she cried when she read the script for episode 7. Does anyone have any guesses as to what could unfold??

I can only agree if you mean that they did get to the island. But they didn’t/ couldn’t save all the people but just themselves(jack, kate, maybe locke/sawyer/ben?).

Meaning that Jack did not tell on his father before the crash and his father is still a doctor. And Kate didn’t kill her father so is not in jail now that they are off the island. They are ashamed of what they did to their fathers, including Locke-in this case he also didn’t get his father killed, maybe his father killed him when he returned so he is the one in the coffin) but doing those things made them heroic or at least freed them from a huge burden.

Then it would be all about justice, that they are guilty but they are like gunslingers of some sort and it was somehow good that they brought their own justice, they were supposed to do that.

This is a very interesting idea. It would make sense that Kate’s father could be alive (if Jack’s is). The problematic time question becomes simplified if a “reset” button affects everyone except our survivors. It would explain why Jack fell apart so completely. If he is the only one who knows that all those people left behind are dead or stuck, he, and anyone else that made it out, would be heavily burdened with survivor’s guilt.

However, it this idea loses some strength when the “golden ticket” is considered. If they are isolated from a shift, in that they are unaffected by a change in the past, but are able to see how things have turned out differently, then why would they still be considered survivors from flight 815?

I can’t quite figure out the deal with Jack’s dad being referenced as he is, but I am considering that it might be a red herring. I don’t think Sawyer gets off the island, and I don’t think that Kate is pregnant either. The sneaky way that Jack and Kate meet could lead to a number of reasons.

I do like the idea that Jack has stepped off of his “destiny” track and feels it very deeply. I think this is why he is so distraught at the funeral. Whoever is in the coffin, it has to be someone who felt that staying on the island was destiny, which means it could be Ben, Locke, or Walt.

Good thought, though!!

according to the writers, the person in the coffin is someone we’ve already seen before so there goes the idea that its a new character.

i like how jack referenced his father to the doctor as if he was still alive an the doctor not appearing shocked by it. but the writers already stated that christian is dead so i’m starting to wonder…

i think somehow they were given an opportunity to change things which is why kate isn’t in jail (or they absolved her of her crimes after surviving the crash). the “he” she may be referring to may be her child, sawyer, or her step father. everyone wants to believe it’s sawyer (i know i do!). if she changed something, her step father wouldn’t have died and she would no longer be on the run. if he was abusive, i don’t know why she’d go back to live with them.

if the person in the coffin is locke or ben, jack may be feeling sorry that he didn’t listen and felt compelled to go back to the island. i still don’t know why kate didn’t want to go to the funeral though. from what we can see in the obituary, this person supposedly committed suicide and had a teenaged son. still not sure who it is though i think that book next to the coffin is a clue.

My theory : The person in the coffin is Locke. The reason all the people on the plane have a bond and are drawn to this flight and are strangely connected, is because they are caught in a time loop, and they keep living the crash over again and again; hence all the talk of destiny and arguments between Jack and Locke about science vs. faith. I believe they keep living the same moments over again, because something happens that keeps reseting time to before the crash; or someone, most likely Jack because he realizes too late the mistakes he made on the island and would explain why he is always trying to fix everything. I believe Desmond is aware of this time loop and it is why he can see the past and future. It has been hinted that this season will reveal Dharma’s research into time jumps and parallel realities, so maybe Jack figures this out somehow and keeps getting caught in this time loop. I did find it strange that Jack mentions his father in the last episode, but it definitely wasn’t a reset cuz he has the golden ticket from the airline for surviving the crash. Most likely Kate is refering to Sawyer.

all this second chance stuff.. i dont think it would happen. i love the idea but it just isnt something that could happen in real life, most of losts plot is ”real” or not yet explained to be so. this do-over stuff is fiction and it would really suck to put something like this into the storyline that all these interesting characters live.

I don’t think it would be her Dad. She did find out Wayne was her real father but why would a grown woman be worrying about her dad wondering where she was. The way she says “he” makes me think she is being sympathetic to Jack’s feelings. And no I don’t think it’s Sawyer. I believe it will be her husband. Now whether or not it’s the cop, I don’t know.

I agree, it is more likely that the He Kate is referring to is her husband. But I also think that whomever it is, is actually her minder set up by the Dharma/Widemore/ etc.. I don’t think the world knows who the Oceanic 6 are. ( There’s a billboard out some place that reads ” WHo are the Oceanic Six?” could just be a show teaser. But I suspect its also a clue) The survivors are kept secret ostensibly to protect their privacy. But in reality, its so they don’t blow their cover about who they are and in turn reveal what really happened.

I originally thought that the island was outside of time because of the guy who recruited Juliet and he was the same age when Ben was a child. But, when Juliet asked about her sister when she wanted to go home they showed her a live feed of her sister in the playground with Juliet’s nephew and a newspaper to prove the date. Also, the ‘others’ knew what date it was that the plane crashed—how would they know that if they were operating on a different timeline? I also think that in the flash-forward Kate needs to get home to her child. We don’t know how far ahead this flash is so the child could be old enough to miss her—it doesn’t have to be negative and she might just want to get away from Jack! I think that it may be Sawyer in the casket judging by Kate’s reaction—he probably is the father of her child. An explanation for Kate not being in jail is that she may have taken a different identity—everyone who is rescued would back her up. So many unanswered questions still, hopefully we’ll get some answers this season!

KATE’S HE IS AARON IT HAS BEEN LEAKED SORRY DUMASS

hey look at that… the moneky used his keyboard…

Something else that Kate’s ‘He’ could be is Sawyer’s kid…From when they were in the bear cages. While Sawyer is my favorite character by far, I don’t see him getting off the island alive…I see him sacrificeing himself for Kate…Similar to the way Charlie did for Claire. Also, I am fairly certain that Kate’s not married in the flash forward because she’s not wearing a ring. Regardless what it ends up being, I like yer theory.

My first thought was also that Kate was referring to her dad but my son said Sawyer- What a simply riveting theory!! It makes absolute sense!! Im a bit new here- Had a 3 month crash course and watched all the seasons and found as many clues as I could- This is amazing!

since everyone pretty musch said the same thing over and over again im just gonna say ditto

Great theory! One aspect I’m surprised no one has mentioned yet is Hurley. I found it very odd that whoever it was that came to visit him offered to put him up in a better (presumably more expensive) facility. Why would Hurley, worth some $150 million, need someone else to put him up in another place. Unless of course the thing that ultimately brought him to the island, winning the lottery with the mysterious numbers, didn’t happen in this alternate future.

My feeling is that when Kate, Jack, and perhaps some of our other favorite characters got off the island they went back 15-18 years back in time (time machine) in order to “do over” their lives and perhaps prepare to “do over” the events of flight 815 by never allowing that flight to get off the ground. They did leave some people beind, screwed them, in the hopes of getting off and preventing the whole series of events to begin with thus saving them all. Well the plan worked to some extent in that they did prevent the flight from going forward in a staged hijack. The “Oceanic Six” were the people set up to be heroes. Unfortunately, Kate and Jack’s crew did not realize that the fight would eventually go forward eventually, without them, and that all those people were killed/missing regardless of the plan. So Kate’s life,despite the failed plan is great because she went back in time and got with her childhood sweetheart. That’s “him” and she also has a child with “him”. I wouldn’t be surprised if Locke killed himself and that he is in the coffin. Jack’s life is messed up as he never cured his wife, he prevented her accident, but he never got that break to be “super god surgeon” so thus he drinks and loses everything. Dad is still alive though. Hurley didn’t step on the porch, but his friends still died. He didn’t play the numbers, and has no money and is mentally ill. Sawer played the numbers and he is super rich and has the best life. Sayid escaped Iraq with his love in 1989, but couldn’t make her stop her political quests. She dies leaving Sayid more broken than before. So Jack, Hurley, and Sayid want to go back. Kate and Sawyer need to be pursuaded. But they can not go back until they all get on the same plane together. It’s all or nothing. But they do eventually and then there is a happy ending that we all want at the end of Season 6. What do you think? I only have watched season 1, the season 3 finale, and the season 4 first episode. I don’t have all this Darma/Others crap in my head yet. Perhaps this is why this is so simplistic.

Even if Kate’s stepdad is alive, why would she live with him?! That makes no sense after what he did to her mother. Plus, you can’t use Christian being alive as a support to the theory, since the show’s producers have gone on record to say that Christian is definitely dead. I know that doesn’t make sense in the context of the flash-forward, but there it is.

This is a fantastic idea, but it really only addresses this, the fourth season and some of the backstories. I’d love to hear more about how the Dharma Initiative, the Others, and certain other elements play into this theory. Great thinking.

I love this theory as well, but i have found only one hole. and I’m sure it was addressed in the comments above me, but i have worked a very long shift tonight and didn’t read them all so…here it is. if indeed they got a “Do over”, why does Hurley scream about being part of the Oceanic6. if they got a do over, wouldn’t that mean that they “never crashed”?…so how could that be?

Hi everybody. I’m a spanish fan, I’ve been reading this theory and I really love it. As we’re talking about alternate timelines, don’t you think all this stuff has a lot to do with quantum physics ???

Nice Theory……… im new here so sorry if this has already been said… but more proof of your theory is that when Jack is at the hospital and the doctor is yelling at him… Jack says to him go get my father and if im drunker than he is ….. blahh blahh blah .. I always wondered why he said that but with that theory it makes sense :}

Interesting that “Lapidus” is an anagram for “Aid Plus”… The crew had come to the island for two motives, rescue and….

I like your theory very much, but in the Flash Forward, Jack and his wife are divorced, wouldn’t they be married now? Or did they not actually get divorced before he left?

I think that would also explain the Ape-like foot statue they saw when on Desmond’s boat, that “things are the same” but 180 degrees out. Nice theory.

I’m beginning to wonder if Kate is referring to Benjamin…just kinda a minor speculation.

In one of the Vcast Shorts Christian Sheppard talks to the dog Vincent immediately after the crash and tells the dog to go find his son because he has work to do. This short leaves open whether Christian Sheppard is alive or a ghost. I saw somewhere else that someone said when Hurley went to Jacobs Cabin they saw someone like Christian there..

this has not been debunked at all.