LOST-Theories.com

Then where is the Delorean willamwonka? Where is the Delorean?

Dr. Brown is watching over it in a secret compartment in the Swan.

Jack is trying to find the Island…..remember at the end of season 2 where penny gets a call from the guy that looks like Jack and says “We found it” ??? intersting to me just a thought.

It would make sense - the future Jack telling Locke to prevent the present Jack from leaving the island, so he won’t have to suffer (as seen in the “Flashforward”). This would explain why Locke tries stopping Jack from making the phonecall.

I really like your idea….I think it is well put together and makes a lot of since. I think I will definatly keep this in mind and see if your theory works its self out. It would also make me happy because last nights episode made me a little upset. I hate the idea of knowing that after they get off the island jack is a total wreck, plus him and kate are not together. I think the writters might have put this in the show because the audience dosn’t want to see this happen and possily want to see it changed. We have to know what is going to happen after jack’s drunken state because if we don’t there will be to many unaswered questions about what happens to jack. I think maybe this flashforward has everything to do with next season…I think I’m going to write a theory about this.

Great theory. So good, in fact, that it made me register to comment about it…

Not only that, but in the flashforward, did anyone notice that the bearded Jack, in profile, strongly resembled Jacob, in profile?

Good theory.

Just another quick thought I had. The only two people that are really attempting to stop Jack from getting off the island are Locke and Ben. Also the only two people that we know of that can hear Jacob. Hmmmm…. Ok one more fleeting thought….. Alex asks Ben why he won’t just let the losties get off the island. Ben replies with a simple “I can’t” Is this because Jacob(Jack) has drilled it into Ben’s head so deeply that his one mission is to not let Jack and the losties off the island. He says I can’t as if his life depends upon them not getting off. Whereby Ben is the one dead in the coffin.

Excellent theory. I really like the idea that future Jack and Locke are teamed up.

I think that this theory definitely works. And Locke telling Jack that he was “not supposed to do this,” reminded me of the shop owner in Desmond’s own flashback when he actually bought the ring. Somehow these actions are altering history or the future….

Did you watch lost the answers. IT HAS nothing TO DO WITH pergatory OR THE SPACE TIME continuum. Every one get so indepth with the show that you dont see the obvious, IT WAS STATED BY THE producers themselves. I like the theory though, it is very creative but sometimes creativity is not the key.

Yes I watched “The Answers” and they did say that it wasn’t purgatory. However, you are mistaking about the space time continuum. He said that the characters ARE ALIVE somewhere in the space time continuum. So actually “the answers” supports my theory rather than debunking it.

If jacob is jack of the future wouldnt he know where the island is? From what we seen of jacks future he spent most of the time trying to get painkillers, find kate, and get back to the island. We have seen jacobs extraordinary powers. If he has been on the island for an extended amount of time wouldnt he know all about it, for instance where it is located. Plus think about it, is time travel even possible. Going through wormholes and such. We dont think of it or practice it as a society today. The show is set during our time period. If they bring in time travel the show will get so far fetched it will become stupid. The producers would have to have a resonable explination of how they traveled through time to get where they are.

The Jack we see in the flash forward is not that far in the future. Sure Jack has had some time to take some trips with his golden ticket and grow a nice beard, but his ex-wife is still his emergency contact and shows up at the hospital. This future Jack we see has not found his way back to the island yet to become Jacob, but he is working on it obviously by his constant airline flights over the ocean to locations such as Toyko, Sydney and Singapore and the maps he has in his bedroom with red markings all over them.

Can you really bring up plausibility of a concept based upon current technology with this show? Also, time travel is going to make this show too far-fetched that it will become stupid? Last I looked we don’t have the ability to cure quadripeds, create a smoke monster that kills people and gives people visions, cure cancer, create images of dead people and memorabilia that are completely lifelike, sheesh an island with fantastic and mysterious powers, etc. These things too are quite far-fetched, but it is time travel that is going to put you over the edge. Interesting.

The Desmond flashback showed us that timelines are very important to this show and the decisions that are made affect those timelines. Jack in the future finds a way to enter the timeline that we’ve been watching for the last 3 seasons as Jacob. He couldn’t pick an exact spot to enter it so that is why he’s been around for longer than the losties have been plane wrecked. Its just a theory, but I don’t see much to debunk it at this point.

Through the looking Glass! Seeing through a different realm? Seeing yourself as someone or something else?

Interesting! Very Interesting!

I really love the idea of this theory…I really do. But why wouldn’t Ben make any allusion to Jack when he takes Locke to meet him? There doesn’t seem to be any sense of, “And now here’s a guy you may remember…” Just a surprised, “You mean you don’t see him?” Truthfully, I’m just not sure they’d give us enough information at this point to define the entire show.

IF Wonka is correct (and that’s a big “if”)… here’s an interesting twist this could take. . .

Jack essentially becomes the “villain” and/or our views on who are the heroes and who are the villains will be turned upside-down over the next season or two.

Note how Jack states that he rides planes hoping that they will crash and not caring at all about the lives of the others onboard… all in hopes of returning to the island. Well… doesn’t that say something about a re-alignment of Jack’s moral compass?

So if he does eventually get back on the island, he will be (as Jacob) the one directing Ben and the Others to do all those nasty things. Which, well… makes him the bad guy. . .

Unless of course, the writers can convince us that all the things the Others were doing were somehow justified (thereby exonerating Jack/Jacob). They might do this by showing us some horrific consequences that befall everyone (survivors and Others together) once the island is discovered or people leave it.

The more I think about this, the more I think the Jack=Jacob theory might actually be right. But only because it fits the stereotypical “mind-f—k” scenario that writers like to do nowadays. It would almost seem cliche to have the mystery character turn out to be the main character/hero of the show. But, we all know that writers aren’t above using cliches. Especially if they think they’re clever enough to obscure it until the last moment.

Interesting and plausible theory in the LOST realm of reality.

If your theory is correct, then here are a few more things to consider.

Jack finds a way to go back to the island before even Ben gets there. Jack (now Jacob) “summons” people (i.e. Ben) and maybe has a self-imposed “imprisonment” (think odd dust circle).

Assuming there would be tragic results if “present” Jack found out that he was Jacob, then it is probable that Jacob keeps his true identity hid from both John and Ben knowing the consequences.

Ben is blindly devoted to the Island and Jacob, and I don’t think John knows because (unless he got a crash course in Mysterious Island 101) he still doesn’t know Jacob and many or all the secrets of the Island. John just recently asked Ben about the secrets and met Jacob and didn’t learn much. So I think it is just a renewed faith in the island and that he believes they are meant to be there and not for Jack’s sake at this point.

I’m curious to see how next season starts. Remember Desmond is probably alive and has a message for his friends from our hero Charlie. I would hate to think Charlie’s death was in vain.

Anyway, just a few things to ponder. Excellent thread Mr. Wonka! I would love to see more ideas on this one.

“Little surprises around every corner, but nothing dangerous! Don’t be alarmed.” ;)

Yeah… I just don’t ever foresee a situation on Lost where future Jack is climbing into a time machine, or standing in front of a magical portal, with that weird old lady telling him, “go back, go back and save them all!”

I just don’t see the writers cooking it up like that.

drebb,

Agreed the writers would not cook up something as cheesy as a delorean with a flux capacitor taking Jack back. Of course, they will be more clever than that. How they do it? We’ll have to wait and see.

All the arguments about the likelihood of the writer’s doing this and that aside, I think you made a very good observation of Locke’s comment to Jack about the call. The fact that he phrases it as “you’re not supposed to do this” is very interesting and potentially very important. The only thing is that if he had been given insight as to what is going to happen, it would seem that Walt (or whatever it was) was the one to give it to him.

Oh, and the bit about Jack being depressed about another funeral is a brilliant interpretation, nice work there.

Not sure if this makes sense but… At the end of the second season, after the purple sky, Desmond turning the key etc. the season ends with a guy in some snowy place (who, some people have said resembles Jack) detecting it, and radioing Penny that “I’ve found them” or something like that… Could this be a flashforward to the future? Jack teams up with Penny to look for the Island?

Also, at the end of season 2, during the transmission between Charlie and Penny, Penny seems confused, she asks “where are you?” (i think if i remember correctly)… We know it’s Penny, but we don’t know WHEN that Penny IS… Is it me, or does the Penny at end of Season 2 seem to be from a time further in the future than the Penny at the end of season 3? Why is it that Penny goes from “we found it” (end of season 2) to “where are you?” (end of season 3)? Maybe as the seriers progresses, we will later see the other side of these transmissions, at a later time in the story…?

great job william, Jack is for sure my front-runner for being Jacob after this!

-Time

The guys at the polar station working for Penny speak in Portuguese. The guy just resembles Jack. Check Lostpedia and you’ll see the guy has a character name and is in fact an actual actor.

The above was in response to bRink’s comment. :)

I think that Alpert knows more than he’s giving away. He seems to be detached as if observing rather than following anyone’s orders.

With regard to Jack being Jacob, look at their eyes.

just a thought, why did Ben say to Locke ‘shoot him john, do what you have to do’! if he’s helping Jack? It seems he’s more worried about the signal going down than helping Jack with some destiny-thingy

SO jacob is the future jack that traveled back in time to stop the present jack from getting addicted to pain killers and alcohol. Why wouldn’t jacob just go back before jack got on the plane to avoid all the mess. ALso why does the past jack not have any powers that the future jack has in the cabin. If you would have said desmond was jacob i would have believed it since desmond kindof sees what alread happeded because he already expirienced it.

“This would explain why Locke tries stopping Jack from making the phonecall.” yep but he cant shoot him because then jacob would die… r something…

This is a GREAT theory! And one that dovetails well with a few obsevations I have made going nearly all the way back to the beginning of the series.

First off, I submit to you that John Locke has been an agent working on behalf of Jacob/The Island much longer than we realize.

Proof #1: In season 1, John encounters The Monster “Smokie” face to face. Instead of suffering an immediate, horrible death like the pilot, we find out that John seems to have become buddies with Smokie. He tells Jack something along the lines of “I have looked into the face of this island and what I saw was beautiful.”

Proof #2: At the beginning of season 2, John ends up tied up and held captive in the Swan station and yells out “It wasn’t supposed to happen like this!” This struck me as a very odd thing to say at the time but now seems to make a bit more sense.

I’m sure there are other pieces of evidence that what I’m saying is true.

OK…first to Gapped,

I do not believe that either Ben or Locke realize that Jacob is Jack. Therefore, when the confrontation is happening between Jack and Locke, Ben tells Locke to do what he has to do because he believes that for Jacob and for the island, the most important thing is that the signal not go out.

Next, GodeatGod,

Jack did not come back as Jacob just to save his own skin and make it so he doesn’t go into his deep, dark depression. Although I’m sure there is some self-interest motivation there. I believe he’s gone back because off the island, things are horrible for all the survivors including himself.

He is so bound and determined to get back to the island that he’s taking international flights every weekend just in hopes that it will crash and take him back to the island. When he is on the bridge he whispers “Forgive Me” right before he is going to jump. He has noone left in his life that is close to him. Who is he asking forgiveness from? I believe it is from the people he led off the island who now are miserable and seemingly either being murdered or committing suicide in their lofts.

Jack doesn’t exhibit the powers of Jacob because he hasn’t developed them yet. Who knows how long Jacob has been on the island. If it is possible to go back in time to the island he could possibly of been there for any number of years studying and developing the powers of the island.

Finally, the reason why future Jack doesn’t just go back and stop past Jack from getting on the flight is because the island has something to do with allowing the coming and goings of people from different timelines. Future Jack can’t just plop himself at the Sydney airport and rip up past Jack’s tickets and fade to black. He has to appear on the island.

Back to work.

NK-

I agree. Richard or someone that resembled him appeared to a young Ben.

He is the only one I have seen that has been off and on the island (think “not in portland”)

OK —I hate the thought of it but I think you’re right. I agree with just about every one of the supportive points you make & here’s another one: the Jewish “name derivative” of Jack is Jacob.

Forgot to add —Kate’s unexpected indifference/behavior towards Jack while at the airport? (an extreme contrast to before) She now knows that the horrible decision Jack made had doomed them all. ALSO, I REALLY agree that Jacob is Jack who was “time-trapped” between realms while trying to get back. Remember the “Carl-brainwashing” vid? It repeated in the background “only fools are enslaved by time and space”

There is one thing I still do not understand. If Jacob and Ben are working together to stop the Losties from getting off the island. Why is Ben so mad when Locke can hear Jacob? Wouldn’t he be somewhat happy that he wouldn’t have to do it alone?

because as pointed out before Ben doesnt know who Jacob is and in fact might not know Jacobs reasons for keeping them on the island. Ben loves power and although his motives may be to save them or maintain some time/space order he still loves being in control and if Jon now can see Jacob then Ben has lost his power.

Also I don’t think just Jon can see Jacob. What made Richard surprised about Ben in Ben’s childhood is his ability to see his dead mother. We know many of the survivors can see dead people, or visions of sorts, so perhaps all of them would be able to see and hear Jacob.

To LostwithLost

Ben eventually became the leader of the “Others”. He may or may not be able to hear Jacob (maybe Jack). But we know that Locke did.

John Locke is a threat to Ben’s authority now. Remember when one of the others (Cindy?) said to Locke, “We have been waiting for you”?

Then Ben made it a point to humiliate John in front of them and say he wasn’t the man they were hoping for.

I think Ben’s motives are pure (protecting the Island), but his methods are devious and they will lead to his downfall (reason for cancer).

Locke is the man that embodies the true vision or spirit of the Island. That is why Walt or Jacob or the black smoke manifested itself to Locke and renewed his faith.

And if Michael, Walt’s father, comes back again and screams WALT!!!! I will throw my TV out the window. :)

I agree that Ben feels threatened by Locke and fears he will loose control over the others and be replaced by Locke. I also believe Jack to be Jakob or at leats a manifestation of him from a different timeline. The timeline we have witnessed in through the looking glass. I’m a little confused as to why future Jack is trying desperately to get back to the island. If he’s trying to get back in order to correct the mistake he made then this would imply that he is aware that the island exists in the past and that time travel is possible and needed to get there. How would he know this? He’s flying around the world hoping he will crash on the island again… doesn’t look like he’s trying to cross time and space to me!! Maybe he just wants to get back because he has nothing to live for anymore but felt needed on the island???

If Dharma have created a so called time machine on the island like Steeve Wynn said in his post With two doors one that needs to be reset every 108 minutes in order to stand still in time and the other advancing with time (I won’t get into the specifics you have to read his post for this)… the others would probably be dharma workers who turned against the dharma initiative because they knew it wasn’t a good idea to tamper with time? And they recruited Ben to help them stop the dharma gang by killing them all. Now they have become self proclaimed protectors of the timeline. This is why Ben won’t let anyone leave because he fears it will contaminate the timeline. Maybe because the island exists outside of time and space people don’t age on the island and this is why Richard stayed the same after all those years went by… The electromagnetic fence around the dharma compound wasn’t created to keep the black smoke or the others out it’s in fact to try and recreate a normal environment on the island so they could solve the childbirth problems they have… think of it as a bubble within a bubble where people age normally inside but outside the fence the island keeps you young. This may be why Richard didn’t age and Ben did… because Ben had to live amongst the dharma group all those years.

And it would also explain why the black smoke can’t cross the fence because it can’t live in the normal world. I think the black smoke is natures way of correcting time anomalies that happen on the island that could cause paradoxes. like the kill your grandpa in the past paradox… if you try to kill your granpa in the past before your father is born then you can’t possibly exist… that’s when the black smoke comes in and keeps you from doing it in order to self correct time.

Here’s another idea I had about the others … maybe the others are four toed aliens like the statue (remember the statue) who are masquerading as us by using the images of people from our thoughts this is why Richard never ages… they only have that one image of him at that age. Or why Jack saw his father… because it was the one person on his mind at the time so they used that image… Ben mentioned a temple… maybe some natives who lived on the island built temples and statues to worship these aliens. Maybe jakob is the leader of the aliens wich would explain the powers he has… No one ever talks much about the possibility of aliens being behind all of this… the black smoke could be an alien probe or sentinel guarding the island? Maybe they are stranded on the island and been living there since a long long time ago from a galaxy far far away… who knows we might yet see R2D2 and C3P0 as guest appearance on the show? lol

LOL!

Aliens have been mentioned and in fact I think it was a jab by the writers/producers at that theory when Juliet joked about what the runway was for to Sawyer.

yeah i think aliens are a little too much but with this show you never though. I think were analyzing the flahs forward a little to early and Jack has clearly learnt many things by that time that make him want to return to the island. I dont think it is as simple as everyone who reuturns has nothing to live for, but something bigger, whether he realizes he has altered time or not he knows for whatever reason he needed to remain on that island. Everyone seems to be pretty sure that Jacob is some sort of future Jack but i am not so set on the idea yet. If Ben could truly see Jacob, which I think he could, I don’t think upon seeing Jack he would have kept him out of the loop as much as he has. In fact it might be Jack who would be in the position of John right now.

The thing I’m confused about, when did you all SEE Jacob’s face? I only remember hearing the “help me” but I never saw his eyes or profile as mentioned in the above posts.

I love the ideas about the altered timelines, though. I don’t see how anyone could think that possibility is too far fetched being as we’ve already seen in demonstrated with Desmond’s story.

Great job everyone! =O)

DoubleD: 2 “And if Michael, Walt’s father, comes back again and screams WALT!!!! I will throw my TV out the window. :)”

me too! the absence of his screaming WALT!! is one the best things about series 3.

god i hated that guy, his flashbacks were the only ones i didnt enjoy.

“The thing I’m confused about, when did you all SEE Jacob’s face? I only remember hearing the “help me” but I never saw his eyes or profile as mentioned in the above posts.”

During the whole paranormal poltergeist thing that happened in the cabin, right after Ben gets thrown against the wall the camera pans very quickly towards the chair and you see him for a split second… You need to freeze the frame in order to get a clear shot but even at that it is very dark and you can only see a little of the mans features. Something about his nose doesn’t quite resemble Jacks though. Looks more like a boxers nose… kinda flat.

Oh, okay. I’ll have to check that out. Thanks.

First, let me start by saying that this is by far one of the best theories I’ve ever come across. I think you’re onto something here Wonka. Now just to add onto what has already been presented…

I believe that Jack finds a way back to the island through the “Numbers”. They’ve kinda fallen off the face of the planet as far as these recent episodes go, but I believe they posses the power to reach the island. These are the numbers that led Rousseau and her team there on the Black Rock. At some point I believe Jack will run into Hugo in the “future”. Seeing that getting back to the island seems to be Jack’s only function in life (besides getting completely plastered), he’ll tell Hugo that he is trying to get back there. Hugo will mention that Rousseau arrived by the numbers, and presto, Jack now has a starting point to getting back onto the island.

this is a good teoiry but i noticed when looking at the picture of jacob it looks more like locke than jack just with a bad hair cut and in old ship clothes like the ones they would of worn on the black rock. richard and the others are also wearing these clothes in bens flashback so maby there is a time loopon the island.

i think that this is a really interesting theory but i don’t see it happening but it has followed up on some issues that i believe are significant also i think the song good vibrations is key to the story the writers will make you forget about it before it becomes significant to the plot but i believe it will play a part as it was picked for a reason also people’s family have a habit of being found on the island so if the code was programmed by a musician charlies brother perhaps ? or was it jack who when kate went to rescue him was playing the piano ?

It might already be said, but I’m not gonna read every comment. Maybe Walt’s done something similar, maybe working together?

You rock! I can totally see this theory happening. Any ideas as to who died?

Och! Brothaw… I can see thaw fuchaw…

Heres a ideaw… brothaw… What if thaw flash forwaw was all a flash in me head brothaw?

Here is a thought regarding Jakob… What if Jakob is Jacks father??? Is this a plausible thought.. ?

Och! OK… It might be a stoopeh ideaw brothaws!

All right! All right! I know… enough with the brothaws…

yeh i like that idea that jacob could be jack’s father it’s plausible yeh good on you. also i spotted something when i watched the last episode again if you watch locke when he says jack you’re not supposed to do this it is if locke has seen it before. also have you not thought that the appearance of walt could be another one of the monsters impersonations???

What about it bein’ one of Desmonds visions of the future that we see in “Through the Looking Glass” ? It would be a simpler solution than all these time travel theories and wormholes and fractals and parallel universes that everyone is coming up with. Keep it up and we’ll probably see captain Picard and his crew on the boat coming to save them.

I think people tend to overlook the obvious because they want it to be more significant when in fact it’s probably not as important as they wish it to be. They are good theories and all… but I find they delve a little too deep into the realm of Star Trek material. Next thing you know we’ll be havin’ conventions with people dressed up as their favorite lostie. They probably already have those. (sigh… eyes rolling)

Why would Ben shoot Loche then? If he doesn’t want anyone to get off the island, and when Loche told Ben that he said “Help me”, why at that point would he shoot him?

If this theory is true then why would Jacob/Jack be telling Ben one thing and telling Locke something else? Wouldn’t he be asking both of them for help? Jacob/Jack would have told Locke to “help Ben” (help Ben keep everyone on the island ie. not call the boat) not “help me”. If Jacob/Jack told Locke to “help me” then that would be interpreted as “help me” contact the boat.

Theory debunked.

Maybe you weren’t paying attention at the time but he shot John before asking him what Jakob said.

Bah….crbolosan,

I don’t think that debunks the theory. If Jacob is Jack and tells Locke “Help Me”. I believe that Jacob knows exactly how Locke will interpret that. Locke believes he has a deep understanding with the island and with his faith. Throughout the series Jack and Locke have come to battle about faith or fate vs. science. At one point in season one, Jack says to Locke, I’m not a believer in fate. Locke says Oh yes you are. You just don’t know it yet. Help me coming from Jack to Locke would mean that Locke has to help Jack find his faith and let Jack “know” that he is a believer. Whereby, stopping Jack from making the call and remaining on the island. That’s how I interpret Jacob saying help me.

BTW crbolosan,

Thanks for flagging my theory as “Debunked” solely based upon your opinion. In case you didn’t know, theories should only be flagged as debunked if that theory has been debunked by the creators of Lost, not by one person’s opinion of that theory. Anywho, I guess this website will have to do some debugging on its flagging operations.

Don’t worry i checked the debunked section and it’s not there .. I guess thats a good sign.

nice idea here man. Everything you said makes a lot of sense. Nicely done.

What, then, is Jacob’s (or jack in the future) interest in the children? And how exactly can he cure cancer? if it is jack, how would he have been there when Juliet first arrived?- Remember, Jacob cured Juliet’s sister’s cancer.

I’ll be succint…

Assuming Jack is Jacob theory.

Jacob (Jack) has never exhibited an interest in children beyond Island pregnacies (Sun and other Losties).

Jack never cured cancer.

Juliet arrived prior to the Jack we know.

Can’t recall anyone named Jacob curing Juliet’s sister’s cancer.

In response to LTDA’s comment.

Thanks doubleD you saved me some time.

In the Lost: Answers episode with the producers they debunked any theories that the island is not “in this time and space.” Not saying they can’t or won’t go out of their way, but it’s recorded with their statement showing that they’re not doing a time/space trick for this show.

I think the actual quote was along the lines of ‘this island is definitely somewhere in this… time and space continuum.’

i just dont see it! its a big just to say kack is jacob just cos hes looking for the island when he gets off it! Jack regrets whatever he did to get off the island but to say he developed super power etc is just ridiculas! and anyone that agrees is an idiot

Nice theory, but there’s one thing that’s bugging me. If Locke knows what will happen if Jack makes the call, wouldn’t he do much more to stop that from happening. He could have told everyone what he heard, or at least threaten to shoot someone if Jack doesn’t destroy the phone right now. It would be drastic, but Locke is more of a “ends justify the means” type of person so he may be up to it. I just don’t think he would give up that easily. But overall, a great theory.

covand,

I believe you need to look up the definition of time space continuum.

Acm3006,

I appreciate your cleverly stated rebuttle to my theory filled with logical arguements and facts coming to a resoundingly solid ending of stating people as idiots. Nice job.

Calcaneus,

I don’t know how much more Locke could do besides blowing Jack’s brains out. Here is a quote from ProfOzone that I agree with to why Locke did not kill Jack to stop the phone call.

From ProfOzone in his Post: On Walt and John

“Perhaps this line of reasoning can also explain why John had no problem killing Naomi in cold blood while he failed to follow through on his threat to shoot Jack. Maybe John, via Walt’s first-hand accounts, knew something about Naomi that proved beyond doubt that she was an immediate threat. A very bad person. Therefore John felt justified in killing her. But Jack is an entirely different story. Sure, on a practical level he was no better than Naomi if he was about to do for her what she’d been interrupted from doing herself. But on a personal level, in John’s mind Jack is “one of the good guys” and that level of consideration supremely matters to John. So he had to walk away.”

Read his post if you want to see the rest. He has some interesting ideas in there about Walt.

Back to work.

My tip of the hat to you as well Mr. Wonka. Now where the heck is my Golden Ticket?

Maybe we should explore “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory” now.

It seems that these producers/writers are taking us on a ride through literary works.

I’ve just joined because this theory is simply fascinating!

I’d like to make a comment on the runway. If this theory is correct, perhaps Jacob (Jack) has instructed Ben to build a runway for what he hopes to be a return to the island for himself and the survivors. Obviously life for the survivors post-island is bad and Jack tells Kate that they “have to go back.” Why would Ben be building a runway is someone wasn’t planning to come to the island? Jack is clearly trying to find his way back and thinks everyone else must join him. If Jack is, indeed, Jacob it would shed some light on why a runway is being built.

Additionally, I’ve read up a little on the name Jack. “Jack, originally a nickname for John (Hebrew) “the Lord is gracious,” or Jacques, the French form of Jacob (Hebrew) “he who supplants”.” Someone previously commented, “At one point in season one, Jack says to Locke, I’m not a believer in fate. Locke says Oh yes you are. You just don’t know it yet.” Therefore, taken from the information on the name origins, I believe that John Locke exists as sort of the aspect in Jack that does have faith, that believes in fate and the necessity of the island. Jacob, “he who supplants” (supplant meaning “to displace and substitute for”), is the future form of Jack—he takes the place of the Jack physically and motivationally. It seems interesting how related these three names are, I’m assuming the writers have intended to establish some sort of connection.

Comments? Suggestions?

It’s an interesting theory really. Jack does sound a bit like Jacob and it does sound like a name he would choose if he couldn’t choose his own. I know that’s loose, but it’s something at least. You have to ask yourself how long Jacob has been around though, probably long before the plane crash.

I teach 9th Grade English and we just finished Lord of the Flies. Obviously, there are many similarities that I’m SURE have been addressed on this site.

However, the character Jack in LOF has some similar traits to LostJack, most notably control issues. Are there other clues within the Golding’s book that could help? Very similar themes….

You know if Jack is Jacob and hes trying to stop himself getting off the Island and ruining his life doesnt that mean hes failed because Jack made that phone call and those other people are coming to “rescue” them. Is Jack just going to be thrown into an infinate loop of attempting to change the past? He should have a word with Desmond and he’ll realise that no matter what he does he’s going to become a tramp eventually, which is a shame considering they seemed to have finally defeated the Others and everything the Island could throw at them.

Re WilliamWonka

Your rebuttal says you believe Jacob knows exactly how Locke will interpret “help me”, which you say leads John to stopping Jack from making the call. However, Locke doesn’t stop Jack. So you’re contradicting yourself. Plus all the harsh things that Ben is doing with the Losties he says is all derived from Jacob telling him what to do. Why would it be Jack telling Ben “hey, why don’t you torment and tourture me and my friends”?

And just for the record, I didn’t flag your theory as debunked. Heck, I don’t even know how to. I simply put that statement in MY post, as “In my opinion, debunked”. I think I have a right to post my opinions, just as you do.

You reference to ProfOzone’s theory is a little more vague to John’s not killing Jack. He kills Naomi because she’s bad yes (because she’s a Dharmite come back to take back their island), that’s what Ben knows, that’s why he claims contacting the boat will result in their deaths. I just don’t see how all that leads to “Jack-is-Jacob”. I’d buy a “Walt-is-Jacob” theory much more quickly. At least there has been hints of Walt having paranormal abilities. But there hasn’t even been a slightest hint of Jack having such powers, much less to project them through time into the past.

But hey, maybe you’re right. Who know’s at this point, when even the writer’s don’t know? Props on the theory for sparking good conversation.

I posted the same theory on the gawdawful ABC board and SWLS on May 25th:

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,5385.0.html

http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1700086&forumStart=1110

I guess I’m glad I posted mine on May 24th then. Great minds?

I used to be a big fab of name and name meanings and there is something very shocking that will corroborate with Wonka’s teory.

Enjoy!

Jack j(a)-ck is pronounced jak. It is of Old English origin. Name based on John (Hebrew) “the Lord is gracious”, or Jacques, the French form of Jacob (Hebrew) “he who supplants”. The name has a rugged, down-to-earth aura.

Jack, Jacques, Jacob, James… are are the same same with same meanings.

I will start a new theory about this since this can scale to a more deeper comparison between Jacob from the Bible and Jack.

Wonka excellent theory!

crbolosan

I like the whole Walt-isJacob thing… to me that is very plausable. I have been a fan of the show watching every episode since it began, but have never gotten on and blogged about it… If that is the right term. Good theory Wonka. I don’t think it will go that way. I think Jacob is a totally different character that will come into play in season 4, but you never know with this show. Also does anybody find it weird that Ben has to ask Locke what Jacob said? If he can communicate with him, why didn’t he hear it himself? Maybe speaking through brain waves or something else, but I wanted to get others oppinions without committing to theory and being. Thanks, LostinTime

Hi there,

I would like to argue on a point of your theory W.Wonka, not on the fact that jacob could be Jack, at this point of the show i’m not sure this fact can be so easily proven but it sound plausible anyway.

The point where i’m doubtful is on the meaning of the “help me” of Jacob to Locke, first, as stated before, ben is surprised when Locke ask him “what did you just say ?” This imply Ben didn’t hear Jacob talking to Locke, could Jacob be seen as a different person for them ? For me, it’s sound obvious that Jacob wanted to ask help “for something” to Locke exclusively, this, as we saw it, angered Ben big time.

Second point, that sound important to me, is the gray tray of dust/ashes on the ground near Jacob cabin, Ben and Locke crossed over it but Locke stop before passing it to analyse it and Ben ask him to continue his way stating as if this powder have absolutely no importance, knowing how Ben is, this tray on the ground that seems to surround Jacob cabin could be of a major importance, Jacob could be trapped in a large circle of dust surrounding his cabin ? So he could ask “help me” for another reason…

Third point is about the true nature of the reason that no signal have to be emitted outside the island, the freighter actually CAN’T go to the island because like many other people experienced it before, for the exterior the island is invisible and for those inside there absolutely no way to exit (remember what happened to Desmond in the end of season 2 while he though he could escape with his boat) This said i think the true nature of the station called ironically “the white rabbit” like Alice in Wonderland or like the old magician trick of the rabbit in the hat, is to block transmission to avoid the fact that people outside of the Island locate a radio signal emitting from… nowhere in the pacific sea now that the transmissions can go out, people will be able to prove that something “strange” is going at these coordonates.

So IMO Jacob want an exclusive help from Locke, not from Ben, as he could be trapped by Ben in the cabin, this is Walt or whatever it is who probably asked Locke to stop the signal from being emitted, not Jacob.

Just my point of view, feel free to argue and Thanks for this absolutely mindf…ing serie.

that is one of the freaking most brillant things i’ve heard of. good idea

This supports the theory that Jack=Jacob:

Jack’s tatoo: “He walks among us, but he is not one of us”

but Jack at one point says “that’s what it may say, but that’s not what it means”

So who is the person Kelvin and Desmond ask “Are you him?” if its not Jacob?

whoa, I love this idea!! I was a doubter about Jack being Jacob at first, but now I think he is! Props!!!

He WW,

i think you made a great point with your story…!!

goldenumber btw too…damn you guys rock…:)

Wonderful theory, and here’s a thought that might build upon it.

Remember the woman that interoggated Michael when he was captured? She asked something along the lines of this: “Does Walt appear in places where he’s not supposed to be?”

Thinking on that, we all already know that Walt is special in some way. Like how it was alluded that he killed that bird when mentioning it in his book while he was being ignored by his parents. (Might also could’ve been the cause of the sudden death of his mother). His step-father, Brian, also mentioned his oddness or strangeness to Michael.

With those facts, it wouldn’t be too farfetched to think that Jack could have received help from Walt to return to the island. Walt also has some sort of link to the island (he’s showed up as a manifestation numerous times and has communicated somehow with Michael via PC during capture). And if his power is showing up in places where he’s not supposed to be, that means he can travel great distances or project himself or something. Maybe even through time?

Oh, and I also agree that Hurley’s numbers might play some part in Jack’s return to the island.

Look there is really only 2 theories to this whole Jacob thing, since the producers ruled out time travel and stuff, Jacob is made up by Ben OR Jacob is Jacob a new charachter we havent met yet.

The ruling out of the Time Travel aspect is null after Desmond’s power was introduced.

when did the writers rule out time travel? i kno theyve ruled out purgetory but isnt that it?

ok i like this theory, there’s just one problem. the writers/producers sat down before the series even began and came up with everything. they know what is going to happen for the rest of the series. if you watch the season one dvd extras the writers say that in the first episode they were going to kill off jack instead of the pilot. and therefore kate would step up to be the hero. but when they showed it to ABC, they made the creators keep Jack on there. my point is, i think the series would be completely different if they would have killed off jack. if they would have gone through with it, imagine how much this would effect your theory. just a few thoughts in mind.

dude, excellent call. One question… Has anyone compared screenshots to Jacob when they show his eye and Jack in a close-up? I hope you’re right I love time-travel fiction!

Alright but the series takes course correction as an important issue.

So even if Jacob would try to change the future, he would have to deal with course correction issues again and again. If Jack left the island before he will leave again.

Also if future Jack (Jacob) arrived the island possibly by means of time travel, he would be there before the crash. That will make things too complex. For example he could warn about the rescue for the first place. He wouldn’t let his friends die.

It’s still possible but would require too much explanation.

WillyWonka, why would Ben try to kill Locke if they were both essentially pursuing the same goal?

I love this theory, but….checkout a freeze frame of Jacob from any one of numerous YouTube clips- I swear it looks like a future John rather than Jack…. the theory could still work if it was John returning to alter the path of the islanders- after all, most other theories agree that John doesn’t want anyone, including himself, to leave the island. Maybe he, being so connected with the island, was able to go back to try to prevent everyone from leaving. It would explain his bringing his father back and why the black smoke didn’t harm him. The future John is trying to lead the present John with all of these things.

Besides, given his powers already (in the present) he could be that powerful in the future. Any thoughts?

How about this. If everyone is dying off island, perhaps it is similiar to the situation Charlie is facing. The castaways were supposed to die, and since they re-entered the timeline, the deaths are just another way of the “universe course corrected itself” as desmonds shop keeper says. Jack is trying to get back before it happens to him.

If Jack were Jacob, would it really be that hard to return to the island?

Interesting idea youngguns. You may be onto something. tree_sneakers, Jack doesn’t become Jacob until he returns to the island, so yes it would still be difficult for Jack to return to the island in the flash forward. BTW, just wanted to say thanks to all who have commented on the theory either for or against. Its been an interesting thread. Comment 100. Pretty cool.

WW

sorry but ive had to debunk this the producers said theres no time travel still like the idea

Just because the producers said the characters are somewhere in the space time continuum does not mean that time travel is not possible. The producers have not debunked time travel at any point so i’m disappointed that you would flag this theory as debunked considering the producers never have. But to each their own. Would be nice if before passing judgment you would get your facts straight however.

kat,

Could you tell me where the producer’s have said or written this? People keep writing the producers said this and that, but they don’t give any reference to where or when this happened. If one was to debunk a theory based on the producers statements, i’d at least hope that a reference to the producers debunking statement would be given.

The only time i heard the producers talk about time travel was in the “Answers” special at the end of the season. They didn’t say that there wasn’t time travel. One of them just stated that they are somewhere in the space time continuum. This statement doesn’t debunk time travel.

Where else did the producers talk about this?

Quoted from Lostpedia:

“In ‘Flashes Before Your Eyes’ Desmond did go back in time (producers confirmed it), which means a character did reenter the Island through time travel”

Lindelof spoke of no time travel in season 1, but perhaps he’s changed his mind since. That Desmond episode is awfully difficult to explain without some sort of time travel.

great theory, mr wonka. I was moved to register to comment. ;)

It has occured to me while re-watching Series 1 that at some points it seems that what we watched in the first episodes may not have been Jacks first time on the Island. Is it not possible that jacks lack of concern for anything other than getting back to the Island would/could extend to somehow (and this is where the theory starts to fall apart!) engineering a plane crash?….as the only way to get back………. I dunno, now that I type it it sounds dumb, but i’ll leave it up anyway, for what it’s worth!

Love this theory.

Also, its weird how Locke responded to Jack (in i think season 2?) “You will one day” when Jack says he doesnt believe in destiny.

I love this theory but something is bothering me… Jacob’s appearance doesn’t look anything like Jack! http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:3x20Jacobportrait.jpg

Or, does it?

WilliamWonka,

I have read every single post on this thread because I was intrigued and fascinated. I’m impressed with the theory actually, but several things began to bother me as I read.

The way the idea has been presented suggests that there IS “proof” that Jack might be Jakob, but it seems as if the theory is originally based on a wild hypothesis, and that the “proof” has been selected to fit the theory…

Although Jack has a motive for going back, he has not got the means… Yes, he might develop them later, but that’s just a wild guess. Walt or John would make much better Jakobs, as suggested earlier. They’ve both got … special powers. And their powers are justified if they get to… use them in a big way.

Ben told Locke that Jakob feels the same about technology that Locke does. What could this mean? That Jakob IS Locke? It certainly doesn’t sound like Jack. And, as has also been pointed out, Jack and Jakob do not share the slightest resemblance..

But that aside, I know you defend the fact that time travel has not been ruled out, but I don’t see how this theory is more probable than the one about the Great Gedanken Experiment that was already debunked?

If Jakob stops Jack from leaving the island, then Jack will never become his future self that travels back to the island, in which case - I don’t know, Jakob vanishes in a puff of smoke? And none of the things Jakob set into motion happened? Including stopping Jack from leaving? It’s a horrible loop we’re facing here. What’s your take on that?

I agree with those who can’t see Jack/Jakob as being the cause of so many deaths. Why would he go through Ben, knowing what he already knows about the torments Ben puts everyone through? Why not go straight to… maybe Locke?

Well, these are my most immediate thoughts. These theories sure do get your mind spinning!

Thanks for a cool thread.

(Anyone have an idea on why Ben brought Locke to see Jakob in the first place? Did he really have to agree to take him? What did he think he could achieve? Did it have anything to do with Ben thinking Locke was the man they needed? And why kill Locke after taking him to Jakob? Just because he felt threatened by Locke’s ability to hear Jakob? Hardly… he must have expected Locke to see/hear him…)

Jack is not Jacob ––100000

Fun read, WW, but I have to concur with some of The Vagabond’s points. Also, above you and ProfOzone agree that Locke didn’t shoot Jack because he considers Jack “one of the good guys”. But if he knew that calling the boat meant the death to everyone there, do you really think he wouldn’t risk the life of one to save everyone else? How about at least shooting Jack in the arm holding the phone?

The Vagabond - Ben brought Locke to see Jacob because Ben indicated to Locke that Jacob is their leader and Locke wanted his questions answered. I think Ben took Locke to find out if Jacob can be heard by Locke since supposedly, only Ben can talk with Jacob. I also think that Ben is holding Jacob captive and when Ben finds out that Jacob said “Help me” to Locke without Ben hearing it, Ben was concerned that Locke may try to figure out how to free Jacob. And Ben may not survive if Jacob is freed so Ben shoots Locke and leaves him for dead. What I don’t understand is why Locke doesn’t go after Ben when Ben is tied to the tree? Based on what we know, you would think Locke owes Ben a bullet in the biblical sense.

Kind of sad how the most popular theories get thrown into the debunked bin because a few people want to see them removed from the top. This theory has never been debunked by the producers, yet here it sits . I find it quite interesting how the two theories that received the most comments and votes now sit in here out of direct public view and removed from the categorical search functionality of this site. First it happened to wynnter’s thread and now this one. Have to say that something kinda fishy is going on here. What kind of credibility does this site have when its users can categorize theories as debunked when they aren’t? C’est la vie.

I believe that the users of this site can only “flag” the theory as debunked. After being flagged the producers/writers look at it and decide whether to”debunk” it. If they do it ends up here.

Nice theory tho WW. Very insightful.

mobiustrip, I sincerely hope that your above comment was sarcasm or else you believe that the writers and producers of Lost run this website. The site is set-up so that if enough users/members of this site vote or flag a theory as debunked then it is moved into the debunked section. Once voted into the “debunk abyss” it will no longer be viewed by most people cause they never come into this section. Oddly, this has happened to the two theories with the most comments, votes, and positive votes on this board…this one and wynnter’s even though neither is actually debunked. The producers contradict themselves multiple times when speaking on time travel and they have already admitted that Desmond did travel through time in Flashes Before Your Eyes. So I ask the question…..how are these two theories debunked?

Agreed about the producers contradictions.

First they say that time travel has nothing to do with it, but then later on we have whole episodes dedicated to the flow of time and time travel.

Why was this debunked again? Doesn’t seem to be a reason for it.

I just wanted to make a comment re the screenshot. I did a frame freeze, you can barely see anything but it really does look more like John than it does like Jack. Moreover, John freaks out and runs out of the cabin right at that moment.

Did anyone else notice that the fire that happened came and went, with sort of a flash in the middle of it? Was that weird?

The answer that points to neither Jack or John is that in the frame freeze screenshot, he’s got long almost grayish hair. Somehow, I doubt that Locke can grow long grayish hair. I don’t know that Jack can either.

I this this is a very good theory and was quite surprised to find it in the debunked category. With so many + votes and good comments, is there any way to get it out of this category and back to where it deserves to be?

I agree with Annie.This is a good theory.I cant see how its been debunked?

I think it is a good theory, except for the fact that Vagebond names a lot reasons that this theory doesn´t really hold up. I don´t think this theory should be debunked just because someone gives good arguments against it.

AT WilliamWonka,

you respond to everyone who makes a comment or asks a question about this theory. But then Vagebond gives a few of his oppinions and you don´t respond to him ?

Jelle,

I pretty much gave up on this thread when it was debunked…..unfairly i might add. Vagebond wrote his comments right about the time this was voted into the debunked pile. Was kinda pissed about that whole thing so I decided not to contribute any longer to a site with such piss poor rules about debunking theories. Anywho, I’m glad you took the time to find this in the debunked pile and I hope you enjoyed it.

@Kat

Not me. I’ve been pissed about the whole debunking thing for a while now and figured it was just someone with multiple accounts being an a attacking all the highest rated theories. Thanks for looking into this and finding a solution to the problem. Good work!!!

I believe the new Dharma video showing two identical rabbits in the same space and time adds some more validity to this theory. It seems that the rabbit has somehow been teleported so that there are now two instances of the rabbit in the same space and time. This follows along the lines that Jacob is Jack teleported back to the island.

The scientists also don’t want the rabbits to come into contact with each other which is probably due to some sort of space time continuum catastrophe that would happen if contact is made between the two rabbits. I’ve stated this before but this gives more evidence to why Jack is not on Jacob’s list because they cannot come into contact with each other. Thoughts?

OK, I understand everything said. But this.

If Jacob is Jack ,why not call himself JAck. Why The Alias(excuse the pun)

If it soooo important for Jack to stay on the Island, Why would ben not just tell him, instead of being so cryptic. You could argue for the producers to make 3 more seasons, but that would just be stupid. If It was Ben and Lockes mission, just tell him. IS he going to do this over, and over and over, again, until he finally picks to stay on the Island… Sorry, that just doesnt run with me. Also, a lot can happen in 48 episodes. A lot.especially since the whole reason for the break is for them to make kickass episodes every week, week in week out.

@ cilcost

Do you really think that Jack being the man of science would believe Ben if he told him: “Jack, by the way, I have your future self locked up in a cabin and he believes that you should never leave this island or else bad things will happen.” Jack would then of course ask to see this future self and Ben would reply: “Oh no you can’t do that or the whole universe will implode due to the space time continuum paradox” Of course Ben can’t just tell Jack cause Jack would never believe it. Also, Ben has tried telling Jack on multiple occasions that his actions are going to bring on the death of everyone. Does Jack believe him? NO! Therefore, how would Ben think that Jack would believe him about Jacob? I don’t know if Ben even knows that Jacob is Jack.

Why the alias? I’m not sure. Perhaps he needs to remain anonymous to complete his mission. Maybe when he first said his name to Ben he said Jack, but Ben heard Jacob. Who knows.

test

Okay I like this theory. What if future jack came back to the island, but when he came back he came back hundreds of years early, but found out that if you come back to the island you do not age the same. What if in that time, he had people come to the island, by making up inventions, and what not. Preparing for his arrivial(because the world has a way of course correction he could not stop himself from going to the island) Maybe the others are there directly because of jacks many many years of preparation, even before his current time self was born maybe? Many people were put on the plane by dharma(who is controlled by Jack) they were all forced into situations where they needed to use the plane. I believe Jack picked these people, or atleast some of them, to help stop himself from leaving the island.(Locke is the best anti-jack there is) I believe Locke was told the truth at the end of season 3 and this is why Locke could not kill Jack, he tried his hardest to scare Jack, he even killed somebody to do it, when we all know locke does not just kill people.

I like it Jersey.

WilliamWonka - I love your theory, it’s really good you have thought a lot about this but somehow I think you are reading too much into it. How about this…

What if Jack and Kate escaped / were released from the island (Michael and Walt style) but Jacks’ guilt about leaving everybody behind is killing him and that is the reason he wants to return? In addition to this, possibly they even take Ben with them who is now ‘with’ Kate and maybe that is Kates’ reason for not going back?

@gazzap

If you’d like to write up a theory about this then go for it. It seems a bit too straight forward to me for it to come out of the Lost writers heads. Why would Kate be with Ben? Why would she not want to leave Ben? Are they together as in biblically? I haven’t seen any signs that would lead Ben and Kate to be together romantically off the island. I’d be more inclined to believe she is with Sawyer or possibly her father since in the “flash forward” it seems that we might be in a new timeline since it would appear that Christian is alive then