The Perfect Montauk Sci-Fi
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By HoofSC
- The Perfect Montauk Sci-Fi
- Created: Jun 17, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 13, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
This is when he describes how they did everything possible to shut down the generators, and decided it was time the entire Montauk Project was shut down. He says in 1984 a crack squad of Black Berets (believed to be Marines) were sent to the base. They were “reportedly ordered to shoot anything that moved. Their purpose was to purge anyone who might be on the base.”
— HoofSC
I believe this is precisely the entire basis for the show. The Montauk Project: Experiments in Time by Preston Nichols describes the following elements of the show LOST:
“Rainbow technology” - which was used in the invisibility experiments in the Philadelphia Experiment turns on and creates what can be called an “alternate” or “artificial reality”. It creates the stealth effect (the island is “invisible”) by not only “isolating” the island but the individuals on/in it as well, within the “bottle effect” (Desmond’s “snow-globe”). Those beings are literally removed from space and our Universe as we know it into a state Nichols refers to as “Zero Time”. The Alternate Reality thus created has no time references at all because it’s out of the normal stream of time. He quotes “To be in a artificial reality would be like waking up and not knowing where the hell you are. All of this would be very confusing.”
The Phoenix Project was the project created of bringing humans INTO the “bottle” while at the same time connecting them to their “real time reference”. They solved this by feeding into the bottle all the “natural backgrounds of Earth” - at least enough to convince them of a continuous stream time reference. He writes “This is why it was necessary to set a phony stage. They could then feel some degree of normality.” Futhermore he says “A computer had to be used if they were going to calculate the time references of specific people and replicate those refernces while they were passing through an “electromagnetic bottle” or alternate reality. The people inside the bottle would be going through zero time and essentially a ‘no reality’ or a disoriented one at best. The computer had to generate an electromagnetic background (or phony ‘stage’) that the physical being would synchronize with as well. If that wasn’t done, the spirit and the physical body would go out of sync, thus resulting in insanity.”
The Montauk Chair is described as a chair where a subject, usually psychic and mostly would sit and concentrate on certain objects. (basically) Tesla/Helmholtz coils and computers (all spec’d out in the book) would take the thoughts into a Cray 1 computer that would decode “a running dialogue” of the person’s thoughts. Basically, digitized thoughts. This description reminds me of the mind-control room and CHAIR that Carl was strapped into. perhaps, those images on the screen were not intended to “brainwash him”, but these were the computers’ digital images of Carl’s exact thoughts. Precisely…
“Improvements and refinements continued until a 3D representation of the actual audio/visual aspect of the person’s thoughts appeared on the computer monitor and could be printed out.” They wanted to turn this mind-reading machine into a transmitter. Furthermore “The theory was that a person in the chair would transmit an alternate reality to the “crew” (like in the Philadelphia Experiment). When the ship became invisible, the crew would then by in sychronization with the alternate reality and wouldn’t become disoriented or mentally lost…The psychic would think thoughts and the Cray 1 would decode them. They’d be put on a 32 bit radio link and sent to Montauk where they would go into an IBM 360 computer…The IBM would broadcast it out the transmitter and could build a thought form out at Montauk of what the psychic was thinking in Southampton.
Once they got the transmitter working, the psychic (Duncan Cameron in the Montauk project) would concentrate on a solid object, and the object would “precipate out of the ether.”! They had actually discovered pure creation out of thought with the use of a transmitter. Hmm… the island’s “BOX” ? … Ben: “It’s not a literal BOX, John…” Furthermore he writes “Whatever [the psychic] could think up would appear… Sometimes it was a real object that was stable and would stay. Other times, it was a solid that would remain as long as the transmitter was turned on… Many times, it would only be visible and not solid to the touch, like a ghost…”
Now they wanted to see what they could do with it. The first experiment was called “The Seeing Eye”. With a lock of the person’s hair or some other “witness”, [the psychic] would concentrate on a person and be able to see “as if he was seeing through their eyes, hearing through their ears, and feeling through their body. He could actually see through other people anywhere on the planet….”
SMOKIE!! and Juliet’s sister - the TV control room: After using what Nichols calls the Orion Delta T Antenna, time warping became possible. He describes “initially the portal would be opened up, but it would drift. This was because [the psychic] himself was drifting. He had to go through extensive training to get the portal to be stable.” (This explains Walt’s sudden appearances, and perhaps all of the Losties seeing those close to them (Dave, Christian, the Horse, Eko’s brother), perhaps all being sent through this “original vortex” to seemingly appear in the jungle, out of nowhere)
He goes on to say they could actually create a “secondary vortex to observe what was going on…
and smokie? “The original vortex was such that one could drive a truck through it. But the secondary vortex was an energetic vortex, with no physical solidarity. one could however, beam through it. Using phase conjugation through the elaborate computer set up, past and future history could actually be transmitted through the portal and viewed on television.” I think when Locke looked into the “Eye of the island”, he saw all the people observing him on the other side of the opening.
- the kids, Walt. “They were specifically trained to go out and bring in other kids… the kids chosen were between 10 and 16, or maybe 18 at the oldest and 9 at the youngest. Most were just about to hit puberty or had just finished it…”
This all makes me think Jack did in fact attend Walt’s funeral. And the person he called right before and said “I just heard…[breakdown]” was probably Michael.
- the BEAST? what’s with the trees being torn down and the Jurassic park noises and the poor pilot being eaten in the pilot episode…?? nichols describes how the psychic Duncan “let loose a monster from his subconscious” that as legend has it terrorized the side of the Montauk base. “It was big, hairy, and nasty…It showed up somewhere on the base. It would eat anything it could find, and it smashed everything in sight. Several people saw it, but almost everyone described a differet beast. It was either 9 feet or 30 feet tall, depending on who saw it…Fright does strange things to people, and no one was sure of what the exact physical constitution of this monster was.” This is when he describes how they did everything possible to shut down the generators, and decided it was time the entire Montauk Project was shut down. He says in 1984 a crack squad of (believed to be Marines) Black Berets were sent to the base. They were “reportedly ordered to shoot anything that moved. Their purpose was to purge anyone who might be on the base.”
Holy $&i^, could the crew just off-shore that Jack contacted be the Black Berets. I think they are and that Ben is right. He and the Others will be the Losties only chance of survival….
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Desmond | Desmond David Hume | 2.23, 3.17, 4.5 | 851 |
| Dr. Christian | Dr. Christian Shephard | 336 | |
| Eko | Mr. Eko | 2.21, 3.5, 2.7, 2.10 | 287 |
| John | John Locke | 3.3, 2.17, 1.4, 1.19, 3.13, 3.19, 4.11, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1229 |
| Walt | Walter “Walt” Lloyd | 2.2, 1.14 | 345 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.23 | Live Together, Die Alone | 5-24-2006 | Desmond | 320 |
| 2.18 | Dave | 4-5-2006 | Hurley | 135 |
| 2.9 | What Kate Did | 11-30-2005 | Kate | 97 |
| 2.3 | Orientation | 10-5-2005 | Sawyer | 113 |
| 1.1 | Pilot, Part 1 | 9-24-2004 | Jack | 363 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Michael and Walt released | 2.23 | 287 |
| Michael captured | 2.22 | 114 |
| Oceanic Flight 815 crashes | 1.1 | 581 |
| Oceanic Flight 815 pilot is killed | 1.1 | 104 |
| Sawyer kills a polar bear | 1.2 | 123 |
Key locations
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| The Door “station” | 2.22 | 156 |
| The Flame Station | 2.23, 3.5, 3.16, 3.11, 2.17 | 220 |
| The Pearl station | 2.21, 3.5, 3.14 | 229 |
| The Swan station | 2.20, 2.23, 2.14, 2.17, 2.1, 2.2, 1.11, 3.3, 3.8 | 460 |
Similar theories
| Title | Author | Cmnts | Votes | Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| The ‘Monster’ | beck | 16 | 7 | +5 |
| The Montauk Project | theUnknown | 2 | 7 | +5 |
Very interesting, thanks.:)
@ Hoof- any ideas about the so called whispers in relation the book?
“According to the accounts of both Preston and Duncan, the Montauk Project culminated on August 12, 1983. A full blown time portal was fully functioning, but things were out of control and Duncan called together a group of people and decided to crash the project. While sitting in the Montauk Chair (a device connected to esoteric radio receivers studded with crystals that sent thoughts out of a giant transmitter), Duncan unleashed a giant beast from his subconscious which literally destroyed the project. The people who had been working on the base suddenly abandoned it. The air shafts and entrances to the major underground facility beneath the base were subsequent14- filled with cement. The full circumstances behind all ol this remain a mystery to this day.” —Pyramids of Montauk: Explorations in Consciousness by Preston Nichols & Peter Moon (C) 1995
Sound like the smoke monster to you?
These authors are also credited as writing the book “Montauk Revisited: Adventures in Synchronicity”. As I’ve tried to point out in the majority of my posts, synchronicity is everywhere in LOST.
You can find more at this site:
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/montauk.html
If you dig deep enough, you’ll find these ideas (and these sites) discredited all over the place, but that doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if any of this really happened, or even if these books were ever really written. The point is, this stuff is awesome source material for a great story. Just read the site I cite above and you’ll feel like you’re reading something out of the Lost Experience. I mean… with source material like this the stories can write themselves.
Seriously… this is good stuff…
By the way… while I think this is an excellent find for source material, I do question some of the conclusions you make. The funeral being Walt’s, for example. In general, I think we need to be cautious about what conclusions we draw. This seems like a good source, but the writers can do with it whatever they want. The show still needs to tell the story, and we don’t have nearly enough info to conclude anything, really, about who’s in the coffin. Actually, I rather doubt that the identity of the person in the coffin is even especially relevant to the greater narrative.
good point Prof O… I certainly don’t mean to jump to conclusions with such an open-ended fiction as LOST has proven to be. You are 100% in saying the writers can do whatever they want, because I believe they will - 3 more seasons, characters still haven’t been introduced, etc…
But I do definitely believe this is the source material these writers found and are following as a backdrop for the sci-fi, characters, etc theyve created. By far the most intricate “theory” that MOST viewers have never heard or even seek to find in story-telling, fiction, and filmmaking
@ Thall - As we say we shouldn’t draw any conclusions because I agree with ProfO that this is as open-ended fiction wise as it possibly could be — I haven’t come to any real speculation as to the source of the whispers. The only ideas that would seem to stand out from Nichols’ reports and Montauk would be his section on “White Noise” being key to the experiments, or simply the usual presence of Smokie or other apparitions which could possibly simply be the viewers that “observe”, listen, and manipulate from the “other end of the tunnel” at the base.
And yes, exactly the producers comments are all very vague for such rich source material as they still create their OWN universe — and its own completely fictionalized rules of its own universe as they harp on in filmmaking — that the concept of ZERO TIME would be what their basing these rules on…. maybe? for now it would seem
but in saying I won’t jump to conclusions…lol….
I do speculate that the off-shore crew contacted in the “Through the Looking Glass” is hostile to the island and everyone on it, as Ben protests… and would be in line with a “Black Beret” paramilitary mission to destroy what these initiatives aka “Projects”, Dharma, Hanso were initially set up to explore — time, space, invisibility, etc. And that perhaps Walt is indeed a key find and perhaps in the “Montauk Chair” more often than others - a Duncan figure - based on his psychic abilities displayed - in the same way Nichols and Bialek describe Duncan being used based on his telepathic abilities
A good concept, well-executed to near dramatic perfection, I say, as a writer and filmmaker.
Damn, why didn’t I come up with these characters first…. :)
One other question for everyone:
My brother (who doesn’t watch the show) asked me recently if I remember seeing one of the very first ABC promo ads for LOST.
In this strange promo/trailer, as he swears he remembers it, there was a young boy (not a character on LOST, as he recalls) sitting staring at a computer or something….An older woman (again not a recognizable character, as he recalls, althought has not seen the show in entireity) presumably the young boy’s mom come over and looks in a FISH TANK that is displayed in the film next to the boy. And she stares down into this aquarium and simply says “Oh, my God…”
He claimed that this promo showed something indicating that the island was IN the fish tank, somehow…. which is odd because of Desmond’s “snow globe” comment and Montauk’s electromagnetic “bottle” discussion.
I have no idea if this ad/promo exists or ever existed, because I have never seen it. But my brother seems to remember it…. —weird
Has anyone else heard of or seen this???? Curious to know.
I just found this and it’s interesting. Certainly fits in the backdrop:
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Dharma_stations.jpg
A few that stand out to me:
“Suggested shutdown date 10.28.04” The year 2003 would be on the “20 year biorhythm” that Nichols describes. The time tunnels as he describes connect 1943 to 1963 to 1983 based on the Earth’s natural biorhythm in the Universe.
So much more on this map loosely fits into Montauk (Underground conduits? with x,y,z - described in Nichols, and “Here be dragons” indicating beasts and alien encounters at different points along the tunnels). I believe it could be the same basic idea, just completely fictionalized — see the LOST Experience - places, times, names, equations etc.
While searching for your goldfish bowl promo, which I haven’t been able to find I found this, I have never seen it before and it was a messed up trailer. Notice how Locke and Walt are orchestrating the music, a clear give away for things to come.
http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/09/22/very-weird-lost-promo-video/
I will post this as a thread so more people get to see it, If anyone else gets the goldfish bowl promo I would really like to see it
HoofSC: awesome find. this sounds to me like a serious contender for best source material. Well done! Also, nice to see a fellow writer in here.
Question for you: do the test subjects (Jack, Kate, et al) ever come to realize what’s going on and escape their artificial world to regain their lives / identity?
Q2: how does being hooked up to the computer/Montauk Chair differ than from say “The Matrix” which essentially was a digitized world to fool the brain of the prisoner into believing in some sort of normalcy.
Wow—great find!
Yeah, I agree, Kat—the whispers—especially with the information about inhabiting other people’s minds.
I just skimmed the site, but here are some other connections I thought of: the sailors who were sent out of time accidentally and unprepared and came back insane (if alive). Maybe that’s what happened to Leonard? And isn’t he a naval officer?
The Montauk Chair—I think its a mind enhancer. Kind of like the alien technology in Forbidden Planet (which seems to be alluded to in the security fence—looks very like the security fence in the movie). “Monsters from the Id”
Alistair Crowley is a name I’ve run into before. He’s a real guy. He wrote something called “The Book of Law” which he claimed to have come to him as he was possessed by ancient spirits. Some of the book is written in a numerical code based on “gematria” — from the kabbalah— a code based on numerical equivalents of the hebrew alphabet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria. Bigez had a post on gematria here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria.
It all sounds very much like what Prof was suggesting when he said that someone used science to break into the shamanistic realm.
And thought forms… that’s what dab’s “tulpa” is. It’s all here, really. (The “beast” is what was a thought form, according to the accounts…)
@ Stip - re: The Matrix
Interesting you bring that up, because I have been thinking about the Montauk Project story as a kind of “Matrix” in reverse…Where the digitized thoughts and computer “program” is being sent to the individuals in the electromagnetic “bubble” via transmitters through the psychic mind that is IN the Montauk Chair (i.e. the Polar Bear and Walt’s comic book; a thought form) It would then appear that Locke is the next to be the Chair subject, as Cooper appears on the island… but notice how the writers are laying the groundwork for such a sci-fi mumbo jumbo-filled explanation so slowly.
“Total Recall”-esque, which Nichols claims was based on the Montauk Chair (i.e. the Total Recall chair - offering digital “vacations”) Nichols also goes into some detail regarding the Montauk Project projecting this time-space tunnel opening INTO the pyramid at Cydonia on Mars as an entire initiative.
I believe that the airplane never “really” crashed, flight 815 IS exactly llike the USS Eldridge. The Losties were hand-picked to be on the “plane” which is more like the submarine.
I speculate that the plane that supposedly “has been found, all the passengers dead” is in fact the exact flight 815 and the Losties dead, AFTER the plane at the experiment base (the ?Sydney airport) has been abandoned, and the entire project - Dharma Initiative - destroyed.
Also just thinking that the hatch explosion EVENT at the end of season 2 could perhaps had “locked off” some time loop on the 20-year (or whatever the writers choose) in the “real time-line”.
“Balance” is important, paradoxes must be avoided, etc. and I believe that’s what Ben is trying to achieve (and why his mission is “so important”, etc) and that Locke, and Walt, have, or have almost the same fundamental knowledge because they are, or nearly are, aware of the importance and backdrop of the entire project.
In fact, what better way for a secret initiative to be “covered-up” than a plane crash - no survivors, end of story.
Another interesting thing I read mentioned TWA 800 crashing near Montauk base.
Also, everyone is missing the fact that Juliet arrived at the island on a submarine.
Alpert: “You’re not going to want to be awake for this…”
Nailed it. It’s the PE
Wow, this theory is totally awesome and fits in perfectly with what several other theorists on this website have been indicating. I have read about The Montauk, Philadelphia and Phoenix Experiements and it is entirely possible “Dharma” was working on. The writers have claimed that “Lost” is based on science, pseudoscinece and the paranormal. Your theory fits in perfectly long these lines. Bravo! Well done!
Prof: I really enjoyed the website you provided! Proves that some of us ARE on the right track!
Right on, dab… I thought you’d like those… :-)
Wonderful find, hoofsc. Seems to make sense….
HoofSC,
I like the background materials and how you linked it up to various events in the show. Good work!!!
Question on the Montauk Chair:
Do you think there is any signifigance to the fact that the one time we have seen Jacob (this elusive person who himself seemingly has some telekinetic powers or just a handy personal cloaking device) that he was sitting in a chair?
The Fibonacci Numbers are somehow connected to the Philadelphia Experiment. Something to do with Time Looping I believe.
I think the “Lost Numbers”(4,8,15,16,23,42) are just a “symbolic representation” for the Fibonacci Sequence. Which turns out to be a very important ratio that is found in a lot of places…in science, math (sacred geometry), creation, art and greek architecture, etc. It is also called the golden ratio. So it is a very special number pattern.
I actually stumbled across the Fibonacci Sequence when researching some design ideas for some paintings. (Not really thinking about Lost) And to make a long story short; my research led me to information on the Phil. Exper. and Mont. Proj. I was like, ” WOW! This sounds like LOST!”
Great Post!! I totally think this theory is the best one so far…or atleast the most intriguing because it all fits in so well. I am not saying the actual Experiment is true (who knows) I am saying that I believe the writers are influenced or inspired by this Experiment.
Check out these websites: http://www.crystalinks.com/phila.html
Here is an article from this website: http://rellavent.blogspot.com/2005_0401archive.html
“Strange Phenomenon: The Philadelphia Experiment
Most of the following info, taken from Skepdic.com.
The Philadelphia Experiment is an alleged United States Navy experiment (Project Rainbow) done on October 28, 1943. According to legend, the destroyer USS Eldridge was made invisible, dematerialized, and teleported from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to Norfolk, Virginia, and back again to the Philadelphia Naval Yard. The experiment allegedly had such terrible side effects, such as making sailors invisible and causing them to go mad, that the Navy quit exploring this exciting new technology.”
The experiment was allegedly done by Dr. Franklin Reno as an application of Einstein’s unified field theory. The experiment supposedly demonstrated a successful connection between gravity and electromagnetism: electromagnetic space-time warping.
The Navy denies that it ever did such a test. The denial is taken as proof by the conspiratorially minded that the experiment must have really occurred. The less gullible ask, Where did this story come from?
The story is a mixture of fact, fiction, speculation, and madness.”
Here are some more links about the Philadelphia Experiment:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-e/de173.htm
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq21-1.htm
http://www.bielek.com/
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/philad1.htm
UFO Research Guide (From the Navy)
Hoax, Experiment or “X-File?”
Survivor Accounts of the Philadelphia Experiment
The Invisible Ship Experiment
The Phliadelphia Experiment Movie
Eldridge Crew “amused” by Philadelphia Experiment
HoofSC: wherever did you do man?
One of the best ever written posts! I was so looking forward to more of your stuff.
I’m with Stip, HoofSC!
Definitely one of the best! Come back and post again!! :)