Ben is telling the truth!
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By thevickers
- Ben is telling the truth!
- Created: Jul 21, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 13, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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Benjamin Linus is a man, first and foremost.
— thevickers
You can thank the writers. They have written a character, they have built a person from nothing to be a complete and total representation of what they want you to see. Benjamin Linus is a man, first and foremost. So no matter what we, the viewer, have gotten from this character; there could still be something else. In a few words, just was is it we have pegged this guy as? Liar? Manipulator? Evil? Sick? Dying? Leader? Fraud? Villan? Madman? What about some other words? Honest? Good? Follower? Disciple? Prophet? Hero? Chosen?
These words are just words until given relevant context to bring them to life. The Ben we’ve seen is someone that will use any circumstance, any life, any opportunity, and any object to further his own agenda. Correct so far? Well, maybe I am; and then again maybe the ends justify the means. Maybe Ben is privvy to secrets that place him in an altogether different category of person. Maybe he knows a secret that is worth killing for, maybe it is worth it’s weight in corpses. Ben is only seen as a string-puller, this guy that has somehow found his way to the top of the heir-archy and seems amused by making others go through hell. But what do we know? We aren’t on that island. We have barely seen him alone on camera for more than two seconds. This guy has had a plan ever since being caught in Rosseau’s net trap in the jungle. A few x-factors have forced him to improvise, but overall he reminds me of a terminator. He is hardwired with his mission objective, and even if it means eradicating everything else, he will complete his objective. I mean, from almost everyone you will hear Ben referred to as a foil to the Lostaways. Someone to give their time on the island strife. Someone to keep them looking over their shoulder. It could be the other way around, Ben might have been days away from altering one of the core numbers of the Valenzetti Equation. Then this plane load of survivors crash his carefully orchestrated series of events. Wouldn’t you be angry if someone wrecked 100,000 dominos you’d just set up when you only had 10 left to go? Then again, maybe they only wrecked 10,000, but stayed there, right in the middle of your dominos. If quitting weren’t an option, if giving up was not even a choice…what then? You’d be forced to repair the damage done by rebuilding around this new obstacle. you’d find certain parts harder to fix, and others much easier. Basically I’m saying that Ben might be telling Jack the truth. He spoke the truth, and it was heard as a lie. He told Jack that the boat would come for them, and kill everyone on that island. He was very clear, and he was honest. Jack, of course, did not hear from his voice that he was sincere. Jack was expecting a lie, so he heard nothing else. Ben, and whatever allegience’s he holds are in fact very critical for the show. Take Juliet for example. Many hated her at first, but there are more than a few now that accept her. Both on the show, and us watching at home. I think that the knowledge that Ben holds, which is to say substantial, is very important. It’s just that he may not use it to save his life, when he needs to. Secrets are very important to him. How many decades did he grow up with the dharma Initiative, knowing their rules, there common knowledge of protocols and procedures; then all this information turn into ammo when faced with a body of people that were ignorant of it? How much more did he learn when he was taught the ways and rules of the others? This information he has gathered is invaluable to everyone. But the release of information at timely intervals is the only thing that is saving his life. Again, he told Jack that they would all die if he called for help, right? I think that is the absolute truth…as Ben knows it. Think back to Desmond and his button. All he knew was what Kelvin told him, and that wasn’t much. All other info, he basically just filled in with his imagination. Over 3(?) years he associated the button with salvation, and not pushing the button as damnation. So even though he had no idea what would happen, he feared for his life. He dreaded the clock reaching zero; as a sinner would dread the thought of hell. With no basis of his belief, his belief was enough for him to run for his life. Now Ben is the same way, although he is basing his belief on more information than we have been privileged to at this time. So maybe he does know more than us. Who are we to say that he’s wrong? I think that there is a possibility that he’s right. I think that Ben is in fear of his life based on info that no one else knows. I think that Ben knows the DHARMA has been waiting, I think he may have been fed some info from the looking glass, or from Mikhial at the Arrow that no one else has.
Personally I’m rooting for Ben to be the right one, just this once. As I said, I HATE Ben, he is too good at being bad to change flags now. But the best bad guys, the absolute perfect bad guys are the ones that use truth with their lies. The ones that twist you around so fast then when you stop, you aren’t even sure if he’s wrong or right. Ben is still with the dharma. Ben knows that the DHARMA have still been around. Ben has had intelligence that they were coming back. And I think DHARMA wants their island back, no matter what. I think Ben knows DHARMA is on that boat. And even though the truth could have set him free had he come clean with Jack. It’s too late now, Namaste Losaways…
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ben | Benjamin Linus | 3.20, 4.9, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1712 |
| Dr.Mittelwerk | Dr. Thomas Werner Mittelwerk | 111 | |
| Jack | Jack Shephard | 1.1, 1.5, 2.11, 1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 3.9, 3.22, 3.1, 4.10, 4.12, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1451 |
| John | John Locke | 3.3, 2.17, 1.4, 1.19, 3.13, 3.19, 4.11, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1228 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.2 | The Glass Ballerina | 10-11-2006 | Sun, Jin, Jae | 198 |
| 2.23 | Live Together, Die Alone | 5-24-2006 | Desmond | 320 |
| 2.17 | Lockdown | 3-29-2006 | John | 147 |
| 2.13 | The Long Con | 2-8-2006 | Sawyer | 86 |
| 2.3 | Orientation | 10-5-2005 | Sawyer | 113 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Jack, Kate, and Sawyer captured | 2.23, 3.1 | 203 |
| Oceanic Flight 815 crashes | 1.1 | 580 |
| Revealing of the blast door map | 2.17 | 134 |
brilliant summary guy!! took alot out of me reading it, but quite genius!!
Excellent analogy! The domines illustration was a stroke of genius. :) But i disagree with you on one little point…you said that Ben enjoys the tormenting (or something like that) of the others…i dont think hd does it because he likes too…i think he does it because he feels he HAS too…but why? I dont think we know enough yet to speculate to much on that. :) +1
Well said, +1. One point of contention, however: Ben is clearly wrong or lying about the fact that everyone will die if the boat reaches the Island becuase at least two Losties survive to see home again - Jack and Kate. If the boat really is a masacre waiting to happen why do you think that Kate and Jack are spared? Do you think that maybe Ben meant “everyone on this Island will die” in a broader sense as in, “everyone on EARTH will die because my work will go unfinished” ?
Well, to reply to thinker and hex’s doubts. Thinker: Although I may have said or implied that Ben enjoyed tormenting those he mainpulates, what I meant to say is that even if you are driven to do bad things for a greater good (which he seems to be) he could have gotten corrupted along the way. Then again, he may just be off his rocker from all the mind melds with Jacob over the years.
And to Hex: As alot of people do, we (the viewers) know certain things that we wish we could yell through the tv to these hapless survivors. But we can’t and as a result. In the moment the series is at. Which is most of the survivors, and Ben at the radio tower. (Not Jack and Kate off the island) No one knows what the future holds, although Ben is dead certain that , yes everyone on that island will die if “they” come there. I am taking the flash-fowards with a grain of salt. These things can be declared by the writers as definitive post island fact, yet things can get very f.u.b.a.r.ed before they get better. So sure, they get off the island, but maybe they had to live through another plane crash in which the witnessed the rest of the survivors dying. Still think they “made it” But Ben’s thinking may very well be everyone on Earth. Because Ben still might have more operatives stashed in others abandoned Hatches continuing the work of the DHARMA. So in his mind, if the island’s population suffers a dramatic decrease, you may as well kiss the Earth’s odds of survival goodbye.
And thanks to everyone who hates Ben, yet is still clever enough to not put something like this past the-powers-that-be. And just imagine, by thinking along these lines, you are all one step closer to figuring out Lost.
I agree with many points. Ben always said that they are the good guys. If they were the bad guys, why would they bother trying to convince us that they are not?
Also.. we have a tendency to associate good guys with “perfect gentle people”. But they are humans, make mistakes and live in a group where all have their separate minds and ideas. I consider the US as being the good guys in Irak, but we can read every day about abuses, killings and other terrible things. It’s about the same thing with “the others” on Lost.
Good points..
Yawn!!!
good theory, making the others’ the good guys would be a twist the writers might take. I think its clear the others see themselves as the good guys, just like the losties. Who knows, and I agree that Dharma is on the boat, and probably Michael and Walt were caught by the boat and that is why Naomi’s chopper was flying in the area
Cuse, in a podcast, stated that Ben does not really lie. Lindelof corrected him and said that Ben did lie about having been born on the island and about being Henry Gale. Cuse accepted that correction, but I think was still standing by his main point - that you can accept at least much of what Ben says as truthful.
thevickers:
A couple of questions, please clarify:
1) At the end of paragraph two, you say, “Ben knows DI is completely dead.” Then you say, “Ben knows they are waiting.”
Does Ben think Dharma is dead or does he think they are waiting?
2) In the last paragraph, you say, “Ben is with the Dharma.” and that, “Dharma is on the boat.”
If Ben is still part of Dharma, then why would he be afraid of them?
Is he “with” Dharma or is he “against” them?
Otherwise, very good post. +1
Nice post! I agree with certain parts of your analogy.
kat: I think you’re dead on with your comparison between Desmond and Ms. Hawkings.
I also agree, that Ben’s comment may have been directed in broader terms.
Yes, I agree with your central point—that Ben is telling Jack the truth. I also think it is early days to say who the good guys and who the bad guys are, and that in the end we’ll find those definitions don’t help us much anyway.
kat: ditto what dab said.
vickers: you make a lot of good points. I’ve always believed Ben to be bad, because he is so frivilous with life. But I do agree he has convinced himself that he is working towards some higher purpose. He’s a zealot in some ways.
Your analogy of Ben=a Terminator was rather interesting. Undeterred until mission accomplished. That’s quite good. I do not agree that Ben has always told the truth, but in this case, his psyche seems to be unravelling and I think he realizes his situation is so desperate, he has no choice but to try to sway Jack to not call the boat. I do not belive Dharma’s on the boat. I’ve always held its Widemore/Paik’s chooches.
I removed the dead/alive line mainly because I couldn’t remember where I was going with it. But I still stand fast by the central point of Ben telling the truth.
And I want to talk a little about the ARG last summer. Now, I can’t remember if the writers stated that the events and characters were canon or not. But for the sake of this argument, they are.
And if so, then both camps (good and bad; not others and survivors) will gain powerful allies. Ms. Rachel Blake, Alvar Hanso, Mittelwerk, the Hanso Foundation. Even as the ARG was ending they set the stage for it’s introduction into the series. Blake was vindicated, Hanso was freed, and Mittelwerk fled but vowed to continue his plan.
Thats the part that has always bothered me, even though the Sri Lanka video talked about some third world country being their focus group. I think maybe Mittelwerk had the LOST island as a contingency plan. And his final words were something like “You may have won the battle; but I still have the virus. blah blah blah, mutter, stammer…” So I kind of linked him as possibly heading towards the series in a boat that took a season to get there. Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe the game was just the off-season snack to tide our collective appetite. But then another thought occurs to me when I try to dismiss it as just a game.
The characters are too well put together, their goals, their lives are too well thought out for them to just be disposable after a summer of drama/murder/suspense/intriuge/and chocolate bars. Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.
according to Lostpedia interview …”Is the so called rescue boat that’s coming to save the folks at the end working with the DHARMA Initiative?” “No”.
the_returnofSteve wrote an in depth essay on this topic complete with graphs and powerpoint: http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jul/15/dharma-was-what-pretty-much-ma/
I am late at coming into this debate. Sorry, I was kidnapped by Harry Potter, but I am back now (I have a great analogy to this using the latest Harry Potter book, but alas, I will not be that guy that gives away the ending).
+1 Great theory!!! I really like it!!
Just a note for the discussion. Ben VERY clearly says that everyone will be “killed.” Killing is more than dying. Killing is done from the outside. Dying could be anything. I do not think it is merely semantics. “Killed” was used for a reason.
Just something I though should be noted here.
Ben isn’t as bad as everyone makes out.
He didn’t order Sayid etc to be killed at the beach but spared them, although he was desperate; the Losties did kill several Others themselves in the name of ‘self-defence’, without even knowing who the Others were. Tom warned them to stay away and they didn’t.
Ben’s manipulative but I’ve always liked him as a character. He has an odd integrity.