Ben, Walt, and Danny Torrance—The Shining Theory
+17 21 Votes
Rate it:
By ragamuffinjoe
- Ben, Walt, and Danny Torrance—The Shining Theory
- Created: Aug 25, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
Why would Ben let the special boy go? What did he mean by “we got more than we hoped for”?
— ragamuffinjoe
This theory is a rework of DSnumber1fan’s theory about Ben, Walt, and why Richard does not age. He is a friend of mine (in the real world :) ) and we talked about his theory before he posted. I think it was a little misunderstood, so I have researched a little and I am reposting it. If you would like to read his theory it is: http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/20/does-richard-alpert-age/
Okay, first I would like to talk about the two people who’s aging has come into question. First, Richard Alpert. There is no debate on whether or not he has aged. He looks the same now as he did when young Ben saw him in The Man Behind The Curtain..if anything he looks younger now. I am not saying he is younger, I am assuming he has not aged.
The second person whose aging is in question is Walt. He (the actor) has most definitely aged between the finale of the second season the the finally of the third. The pulse of the L-T site posters is that the producers tried to make it look like he has not aged. I have always been one of the people against this idea…something never felt right about that. I have analysed and analysed that scene, and I can’t help but come up with the fact that they did not try to hide aging, and maybe they even tried to make it obvious. Here are some clues that the producers were not trying to hid age:
Walt’s shirt. Go back and look at Walt’s shirt throughout the span of the show. There are some pic here: http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Walt_Lloyd. His shirt gets shorter and shorter…because, of course, the boy is growing. This is the easiest thing to use to hide aging. Clothes sizes have masked aging in theater, movies, and television for hundreds of years (the theater before the other to medias were invented). Why would the producers not exchange the shirt for a bigger one? It is a polo shirt for goodness sake!! You can by those like 2 for 10 dollars at Walmart!! They did not because they did not want to mask his aging. By the time we get to the scene in question, the shirt is obviously very short on him (compared to when he left the island). His palms hang almost below the hem of it. When they were first at the island the shirt was practically at his knees. I cannot find a good pic, but when he was reunited with Michael, it hung down to just below his finger tips with his hands hanging down. Long story short, the producers did not hide aging with his shirt.
The boy’s voice. I have heard it said that the producers made his voice sound higher than it was. What?? He voice was quite low (comparative to prior seasons on the show). Having worked production a little in high school, I know that they could do a lot more to make him sound younger…but they did not. They have the money to do a lot of stuff…but the boy’s voice was still low.
Okay, this is not evidence but an answer to a comment often made about Walt being made to look younger. I have read it said that the way they shot the scene made the boy look younger. Walt is up high and the shot is from the pit. Two responses: One, it was shot this way because we were to be shocked by who shows up, and to add to this shock, it was shot from Locke’s point of view…and where was John? In the pit. This is why we are looking up at Walt. The second thing is that if this were the reason, why did the give us a rather close up shot of Walt’s face? His face and hair show some aging. His face is more featured (which comes with adolescence) and his hair has grown since he left. If the producers meant to make him look younger they would not have done the close up (sort of close up, that is).
Last thing. We have a continuity error, big time, if this is just John having an island-induced vision of Walt. The last time that John saw Walt was when they launched the raft. Walt was A LOT younger then than even when he left on the tug with Michael. The producers are not idiots, they would have realized this. They really would have had to make him look younger. I think the evidence is heavy that they did not even try.
Sorry for the tangent, but this is an important foundation for this theory. We must assume that Richard does not age and that Walt does.
Now to the good stuff. Ben and Walt are special. They are special in the same way. They are beyond time. Their ability is to be able to “travel” in time through their minds. No, I am not saying that they can move backward and forward in their own thoughts. I am saying that they have a psychic ability to project themselves in the past, present, and future. I believe the producers got this idea from one of their favorite sources, Stephen King.
The Shining. The shining is a book about a haunted hotel, a man driven insane by it, and psychic abilities. It is the last thing that I want to bring up here. Here is an explanation of what “shining” is from the Internet Movie Database (imdb):
“Shining is the ability to communicate with other people in other places and to see events which happened in the past through a kind of ESP. Halloran tells Danny that he used to hold entire conversations with his grandmother without ever opening their mouths. It is Danyy’s ability to shine which forms the basis of the story as Danny can see the horror which happened in the hotel and which are still to happen. It is reasonable to assume that Danny and Halloran are the only characters able to shine since we are told this is what they do. Certainly Halloran seems to have control over his ability (although he fails to see his own demise) and Danny seems unnerved but essentially aware of the ability. A frequently overlooked aspect of the film, however, is that Jack and Wendy also demonstrate shining abilities. Jack “sees” many other people and has an awareness of the hotel whereas Wendy sees the blood pouring out of the elevators, the strange bear costumed man and the man with the blood on his head who says “great party” in an aristocratic English accent, a person I have always assumed to be Charles Grady who blew his brains out with a shotgun. What is clear though is that neither Jack nor Wendy have any control over this ability or maybe even don’t realise that they actually possess it.”
Throughout “The Shining”, Danny talks through his finger and calls himself “Tony.” The book and tv mini-series reveal that “Tony” is actually Danny from the future warning the family. Only Danny can see “Tony.” Danny’s full name is Daniel Anthony Torrance. Tony is short for Anthony. The mini-series changes the story a bit (through the leading of King) to have the “Tony” warning Danny be a high school senior.
I want to postulate that Ben and Walt both have the “shining”. Possibly others as well, but Ben and Walt are the strongest with the ability. Only, I want to say that their “shining” is slightly more advanced because they can also project themselves into the future, but only to people they have some kind of connection to.
Here is the evidence:
For Ben:
Ben sees his mother. I think the island may enhance the power, and that is why his mom appeared on the island. It was still a projection, but somehow he projected her to the island…or possibly she had been on the island before and he was seeing her because of that.
Richard Alpert. This is where good ‘ole Rick comes in. The reason Ben saw him at a certain age and then years later at the purge he did not look any older was because Ben was projecting to a time shortly before the purge. This is the reason Richard told him that he has to wait. He has to wait until it he catches up to Richard’s time. Why did Richard have long hair? I have another theory that goes with this that I think fits here. Basically, the Hostiles used the same theatrics that they continued as “the Others” to make themselves seem primitive. The hair is simply an “other” wig. I believe the Hostiles (who are actually Dharma…see my theory: http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/17/ben-dharma-widmore-oh-my/ ) knew the island draws special people to itself, and that is the reason for the raids to the DI dorms and stations…they are collecting…and this collecting obviously continues in the time of the Losties. Anyway, Richard does not age because Ben sees him in the future.
Ben collects info on people through projecting and observing. He seems to know things about people he should not. Not just what is in the file, but very personal things and how they react/respond to certain people and situations.
“You are not supposed to…” Ben seems to know the way things are “supposed” to happen. He does because he has seen them.
Jacob. I would dare say that Jacob is either someone from the future or from the past that also has the “shining”, only he has it much stronger than Ben. This is why Ben has trapped him. Why then does Jacob seem to work with Ben? Ben is manipulating him. Promising release. Promising something. Only Jacob is turning against him. Falling from his control. And know John is showing some “shine”…and this is the reason for shooting John. To scare him…or kill him…maybe Ben just has Stormtrooper aim (Star Wars fan shout out!).
Okay, now to Walt.
Miss Klugh asking Michael if he ever saw young Walt in places he should not be. Young Walt would have no control over his power, so it would be possible to accidently project himself. And who would he project to? His father. One of the only people a yound child is connected that deep to.
Walt sightings. During the raft and kidnapping fiasco, Shannon and Sayid (and others?) see Walt. Walt is projecting. He still does not understand what he is doing, but he is projecting. Calling for help…or possibly practicing. It could be possible that Ben is on the boat and he immediately starts probing Walt’s abilities.
The computer. A computer without communitcation abilities in it allows Michael to communicate with Walt. Is this a Walt projection.
Why would Ben let the special boy go? What did he mean by “we got more than we hoped for”? Ben had been working with Walt. Teaching him, probing him, training him. He let him go because he knew that Walt was now connected to the island and could come back…physically and through projections. Why let him go? He will come back.
John in the pit. I believe that this was a “future” Walt projecting to the island. Leading John to do the work he needs to do. To stop Jack. Jack made a bad call (no pun intended), and Walt needs John to clean it up.
Sorry this was so long, but ever since DS and I talked about this, I wanted it to be discussed here. I know there is more to this and more to the island and more to the powers (like making John be able to move his legs), but I did want to burn your eyes out completely from reading!!
What do you think??
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Richard | Richard Alpert | 265 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.22 | Through The Looking Glass | 5-23-2007 | Jack | 1238 |
| 3.20 | The Man Behind The Curtain | 5-9-2007 | Ben | 382 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Michael and Walt released | 2.23 | 278 |
Awesome theory…enjoyed reading it ,not too long at all.
Thanks!
Any thoughts?
I like it RMJ.
Do you think the island amplifies the ability and that each Lostie, especially Locke and Rose, has the potential to use it?
Interesting that Ben had to leave Otherville to have the encounter with Richard….I wonder if the sonar fence is actually some kind of barricade to other properties such as projection and psychic power on the island and not just to keep Smokey out.
Nice thought, sham!! I like it. The island is like a shine booster!!
wit, awesome thought!! I like it a lot…however…a part of my theory is that he saw his mom…that is inside of the fence. Maybe the future can only be projected to outside of the fence??
Very good, very good - I completely agree with you but I like the thinking that the characters can project themselves into the future - had a similar theory but you’ve added a little extra - here it is - http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/may/30/future-and-past-seeing-abiliti/ but where does this leave Desmond - I think the island provides the ‘power’ to project or see into the future but only those who are ‘gifted’ can do it. +1
I would say Desmond is livin’ the dream. :)
Raga I like the cut of your jib. The Shining is the film that scared me the most in the whole world of films. I think there is something extremely frightening about being attracted to someone so scary as Mr Nicholson is in this film. Anyway I digress.
Excellent point made about Waaaaaaaaaalt’s shirt. I firmly believe Walt’s aging is ‘real’ as far as the show goes. The writers would absolutely know a teenage boy would age a lot over a six year run and I personally have always been of the belief that they intended to use this for the show otherwise why have a significant early teenage character and not one who is just a couple of years older and therefore not likely to change so much.
Fab thoughts and a perfect first read for my return from hols. +1
Thanks as always, Mrs.
Mr. A, I think Des can see flashes of the future. He did not go back to the past, but his ability was flashed back that far with the implosion. He was able to see flashes back then. Ben and Walt can project to the future. They don’t just see it, but they actually project themselves there…like they could see themselves if they wanted.
Good theory. Long, but good.
Thanks. Nice name! Any thoughts?
Waaaaaaaalt! Love the name, hate Michael. :)
http://www.waaalt.com/
Lol, sham!!
RMJ: Loved it! Great comparison to The Shining. All good comments too!
I loved what you said about the writers and Waaaaalt’s aging. Of course, they took that into consideration when casting him. And about the clothes, very good catch.
About the projections only being outside of Othersville, I seem to remember that Ben had to leave the compound to go to his mother.
And lastly, I think Desmond did travel back in time. I know many of you hate time travel, so don’t throw things. It’s just what I think.
+1 for a great theory and an enjoyable read!!!
I like it—how do you think it might fit with other visions (like Jack’s of Christian)? BTW I do think lil Ben did see his mother first outside his window so inside the sonar fence.
jaz: you’re right, forgot about that!
Awesome…discussion…I love it!
Thanks everyone. Now don’t forget. This is not just my theory…it is DSNumber1fan’s theory. I just reworked it a little and added the shining bit. It was his idea that Ben was seeing the future and that Walt was projecting from sometime in the future. I just made the connection to The Shining.
There is something I did not add to my theory above. I did not quite see how to fit it in all of the other people on the island besides the ones I mentioned. The discussion helped figure it out. CrazyPolorBear posted a theory last night or this morning about the original inhabitants of the island having special abilities, scattering from the island, and then descendants being lead back. Now obviously I don’t think Richard is one of the originals according to the Shining Theory, but I like the other parts (especially about Ms. Hawkings and Ricky Malkin). Here is the theory: http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/24/getting-it-right-time-plane-cr/.
The special ablity could be the shining-like ability of this theory. Everyone has a little “shiine” and some are stronger than others.
I like it!
i hate time travel, but this one’s not too bad. good effort RMJ
Thanks!
Very interesting, again very feasible
Thanks, Lost_Dog.
Have any ideas or things from the show you think might add or take away from it?
Just on the Walt ageing bit, I think you make some good points about the t-shirts which I hadn’t really noticed - I just thought he was turning into a gangly teenager - The producers have said that they will address Walts growth in season 4 apparently which has been posted on Spoilerfix for a while now. I think what you are saying is though that Walt and Ben can do it naturally - see or project into the future while Desmond has been induced with electromagnetism and does it through ‘science’ while Walt does it through ‘Faith’ mmmm black and white stones could come in here as well - I did like lostsemiotics theory that time goes slower on the island so if Walt has been away from the island that could explain why he;’s grown - but he also grew quite quickly on the island but maybe not as much? It really got me thinking this - I’d give it 10 + if i could!
One strength of the theory is that Richard doesn’t really “not age”. It just appears as though he doesn’t age.
Frankly, I’m still not convinced that the directors didn’t just do a poor job of trying to cover up Walt’s advanced age. I did pay close attention to how the actor was dressed when the show first aired and actually came to the opposite conclusion you did. But in a sense that doesn’t have much bearing on your overall thesis. Bi-location was established as one of Walt’s gifts in the episode where Michael was questioned about him ever showing up where he shouldn’t. It matters little, it seems to me, what “time” or “place” Walt bi-locates from.
“Montauk Experiment” ties to the show would certainly suggest “time weirdness” in the plot, and what you’re suggesting seems as plausible as any other kind.
Well done.
isn’t it still plausible that they didn’t want to change actors and they are left with a teenage boy with 3+ years passing in real time and only 90 days on the island? Isn’t part of any good fiction the reader/viewer’s knowing, willing suspension of disbelief?
Lockeko thats an equally valid point in my book, but only time (really no pun intended) will tell on this one. It really could go either way.
absolutely well said
rmj, if Locke starts running around saying redrum, I’m going to mail you my crapped pants. Just kidding.
I didn’t see JazProf’s question answered about Jack. His dead father appeared to him as well insinuating Jack has the power as well. Where do you stand on Jack=Jacob?
Ben has been using the Pearl to study people and is a genious at picking out their psychological pressure points. Gathering information on people is rather easy - I don’t see why that is so surprising.
I agree with the theory that time moves slower on the island - I always cite Walt’s aging as the supreme evidence of that so I do agree with some of your theory.
What I didn’t get out of it was: WHY? For what purpose is all of this “shining” happening? Help me brotha!
Shiney happy people holding hands Stip?
Lol, sham.
Sorry my connection has been down and I have been doing some work.
Thanks everyone for all of the positives!!
My take on Jack…maybe he can “shine” a little…maybe everyone can, but only a little. Maybe this is the deal with Christian…or maybe Christian has the gift (I doubt it). My take on Christian is a whole other theory for another day. I hold to the “if you change the future you change the past, too” theory. I am still working on completing that thought in my mind though.
Why all the shining? A couple of theories there. I have already quoted CrazyPolarBear’s theory about the original inhabitants having a gift…and maybe this is it ( http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/24/getting-it-right-time-plane-cr/ ). But also maybe it is something that is just a special gift that some people have (obviously Walt is gifted in some way), and the island has a way of enhancing.
Good points on Waaaaaalt’s age, but I still think we are meant to assum he is older. They did say it would be explained…do you think he will talk through his finger when they do?? :)
Lockeko…I thought about calling this the REDRUM Theory. :)
RMJ & DS nice work both of you. I like the ideas you both have.
I also think they took into account how much Walt would age over the course of filming the series.
interesting call on the Shining great story very creepy. Great parallels.
If you like it give me some plus ones! Lol. Just kidding! Thanks.
Interesting theory covers a lot of holes I like it :-). But, I got a question for you if they have this power to proyect themselves so other people can see them on the future, present or past then how can you explain all other visions like Jack’s dad, Dave, Kate’s horse,when Locke sees Bone, Ecko’s Brother and a lot more I can remember. Because from what I read on your theory they can only project themselves. Who projects those visions? In my opinion is Smokey because he can read his enemys deepest fears and use their shape to kill it’s victims. What do you think mate? Even though I love your point of view is very original :-).
CoDeLoST….what happened to your theory?
When I click on it I get an error message…
Codelost, thanks.
Now for your questions. If you read through all of the comments on the theory, I answered the Jack issue. About the other visions and Smokey…I don’t know that my theory is made to answer those. The producers are pulling from a lot of places. I don’t think one theory can answer everything. When the show is all said and done, I think we will see shades of a lot of our theories come out.
The producers also pull from a lot of influences. One influence that has been apparent is Stephen King. They have admitted to using some King ideas in new ways. This theory is just showing another influence from Stephen King.
Does that answer your questions?
Do you know what happened to your theory?
I was just reading back through some of the comments, and I left a question unanswered.
Stip, you asked where I stand on the Jack=Jacob issue. I just don’t think I can buy it. There does not seem to be many clues for it. Ben was REALLY questioned about kidnapping Jack, Kate, and Sawyer. They were not on the list. The reaction of everyone for him keeping Jack to do the surgery was very questionable, too. I just don’t think I can buy it. I used to be a John=Jacob fan, but not anymore. According my current theory, I think we do not know Jacob yet. I think he may be from the past or future, and he is super powerful and was projecting and was captured by Ben (maybe with the help of Walt).
wtfsignmeup and ragamuffinjoe well I tried to edit my theory so I can separated it in different paragraph when I save it I got that error the error 500 but, I talk already with the web master and he said he will fix it as soon as posible just waiting for him if not I will posted again :-). ragamuffinjoe thanks for your answers and maybe you are right and your theory is just part of all. About your last post I was thinking (this is a wild gues :-) ) but, maybe Jacob came to the island in Russeu’s crew, remember we don’t know to much about her past, Ben saying to Alex she was her mom, She been there for 16 years and did not die yet (pretty weird) but, most weird is the communications tower use it to communicate with Dharma for any change on the numbers (See my theory when webmaster fix the link) and been for 16 years her message and no one change it or not even bothering. I don’t know this is just a guess but, my guess is that we will find Russeu’s past in Season 4, Because 3 season with out knowing her past is too much :). Just a thought I wanna share :). ragamuffinjoe still love your theory and point of view very original as I said :) .
By the way my theory is back :-)
I really enjoyed reading your theory. +1
Thanks to you both. I will have to go check out your theory, Code. Marv, do you have anything to add to my theory or anything to think about with it?
Thanks Kat. But as Prof said in a comment, maybe bi-location is above time (would not make a difference to bi-locate in the future from the past or vice versa). So maybe the shining I am talking about is more connected to bi-location than psychic powers. Maybe young Ben bi-located to the future.
RMA isn’t bi-location entirely indepedent of time travel? I mean in bilocation, you have two rabbits at the same time, not really one from the future or the past
I am not sure. I have to admit I am unaware of the details of bi-location. I was just quoting Prof.
I like the psychic power thing myself. I was just trying to connect my theory with what Kat said.
I’ll vote for more paranormal events anyday!
Fair is fair RMJ:
http://www.lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jun/05/lab-rats/
Quite right. And I love it! You are doing what I want to do next…mix theories together and then take my own spin on it all.
It is now RMArzt…don’t stand so close to me.
you forgot the (TM) bro
Lol, Lecko. :) But lets not hijack another theory…of course I am biased. :)
your right, I’d hate to interfere with all the recruiting you’ve done this afternoon. This is a great theory. Question are you saying richard bilocated to ben’s past. If so, did he take ben to the future with him. If not shouldn’t he still have aged over the years
No. I am saying that Ben “shined” to the future…shortly before the purge. That is why young Ben had to “wait.” He had to catch up to Alpert’s time. I do think that Richard was waiting for Ben. I think he knew he was coming…that is why he was in the jungle near the fence. I believe Richard is a part of the real Dharma. They were recruiting people to the island to conduct experiments and to observe as they do. But more than that they were looking for special people…with gifts of all types. I believe ultimately they were looking for someone like Ben (who had similar gifts to Jacob—who is actually a “shiner” from the past or future—I believe the future). When they found Ben…he was a child shining to the future…they had to wait until Ben caught up to the time in which they found him. When they found Ben (and he caught up to their time—which would have been like the next day for Richard), they were done with that phase of Dharma recruiting. They purged and moved on with the next phase (which I know not).
If Jacob is from the future, he knew of the 815 crash…he gathered info and brought it to Ben and gave him a list of those to “harvest.” With that group there were two very special people. Walt and John. Walt is like Ben and Jacob. John is connected to the island.
Shortly before the crash, Ben realizes he is losing favor with Jacob (who possibly other powers or can change things to make illnesses not happen). When they get Walt, Ben is the one to “train” him and probe the powers. With Walt’s help, Ben captures the projected Jacob.
This is as far as the info can take me.
For more info on the Richard and others are Dharma theory, refer back to my other theory.
http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/17/ben-dharma-widmore-oh-my/
I’ve been on Vacation, away from computers and the concerns of the real world. I’m glad Joe was able to reintroduce my theory and expand on it. Great job Joe!
Thanks, man. Anything to add?
Joe I really, really like the shining idea. It helps explain the Richard aging thing, and Ben infinite knowledge. Nice one.
Hey RMJ: I like it! The Shining scared me to death. It freaked me out when the little boy was speaking backwards “red rum” “redruM”…CREEE-PYYY! Oooooh, didn’t Walt talk backwards too? hmm… maybe its just a coincedence…. or maybe NOT! lol!
Alright, now I have a question…or 2… or 3: {so bare with me}
So are you saying that this bi-location thing is like “mind travel”?
Is Walt literally in TWO places? if so what happens to him if say “one” of them dies?
Is Walt in ONE place concentrating and mentally projecting an image/illusion of himself to Locke and Shannon, so they can see him, and through his {for the lack of a better word} - Imagination, he sees them?
+1 great discussion
hey ragmuff, thought i should add a comment and a +1 since you helped me do much on my 1st thread abput our friend mike appearing in season 3!!!
Also you should check out my NEW 3/3 Season theory… it could tie in with this really well, the parets of people projecting from the future anyway
RMA you’re really onto something here. this site and others document the relevance of steven king in the show and I think you have taken it to a new level. bravo my friend. but still don’t stand to close to me (TM)
It’s: don’t stand SO close … :)
REDRUM (TM)
Sorry dude had to do it
sorry pg, was laughing at myself too much to get it right
lol! i understand! I laugh at u too!
I aim to please pg
you usually hit the mark too
thanks kiddo
Glad to hear you’re not bummed.
Now this is a good theory. Not, at all, what’s going on in Lost, but a great speculation nonetheless.
I really hope I’m not the reason for you having been bummed out PG. :(
What we had there was, a failure to communicate and that was my bad.
When I start “shambling” like that, just throw me a fish biscuit and tell me to shut it. :)
Sham, since we had a failure to communicate, I assume you don’t need our civil war? It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
;)
Joe: This is solid gold! I really liked the fact that you likened the relationship between Locke and Walt to Danny and “the character in “The Shining”! I have thought this for a long time. great observations and a job well done! Bravo! +1
Great comments!
…maybe I need to watch the movie….
Sham: It’s ok, I was in a sensitive mood due to other circumstances. It’s all good! :)
Dang. I finally have the time to respond to some questions and comments and I have been pushed back to the second page of latests. Now I will be forgotten. Maybe I should go back to advertising! :)
Okay, first, to Dab…
I don’t think I likened the relationship of Walt and John to Danny and Dick Holleran, but I love the thought!! Actually, I think I like the idea of Lost taking that relationship in a twisted route and making Ben the older mentor. Ben is trying to steer Walt to his side (light or dark…we are not sure). I propose that this is the relationship. Walt has to find his own way (like Luke Skywalker), but Ben was the one to “show the force,” so to speak. I think Ben probed and trained him (a little), but Ben could not control him…and maybe he became a threat to Ben…and therefore he let him go (Ben obviously does not enjoy threats to his power). In the way of training Walt, I think Ben used him to help trap Jacob. As stated in comments, I think Jacob is a “shiner” from the future who projected to the real DI (see my other theory for explanation) to help steer and guide them. Ben had started to lose favor, and so Ben captured his projection to try to control him. I think Jacob is more powerful than just the “shining” and that is why it is worth kidnapping him.
To PG…
Your first question…I am not the person to answer questions about bi-location. I made a few stabs at tying bi-location and my theory together…but I am not really sold on the bi-location. I am sticking with the psychic projection theory for now.
Question two and three…these are sort of connected. You’re third question, “Is Walt in ONE place concentrating and mentally projecting an image/illusion of himself to Locke and Shannon, so they can see him, and through his {for the lack of a better word} - Imagination, he sees them?” sort of sums it all up. The answer is yes. He is mentally projecting, but the projection puts him, in his mind (if this makes sense) where ever he projects to. I would think he is in a trance where ever he truly is. If you kill his projection he is still alive. Does it kill him in his mind, like the Matrix? I don’t think so. Maybe…could be a good theory to build on with that.
Joe: When I read your theory, I immediately thought of Halloran and his relationship to Danny. I find it interesting with Lost, that is Walt in the position of guiding Locke. Anyway, this was a grand theory, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I am hoping it’s right up there in the running! Again, nice job! Sorry, I didn’t get to it right away, but had to spin the tunes on the “Dharma Mystery Machine”, and you know how tough it is to be serious, when that all happens! Good Luck!
No problem on the wait. CF is why I waited to post until Saturday! :)
You know, John as the Hallaron character makes more sense, I just kind of hope for the twisted direction I guess. It is one of the things to love about Lost…it goes the direction you don’t expect.
Great catch, though, becuase I did not even almost make the connection!
+1 I like it, great spot on the clothes, but if Walt at the pit is an older, future version, why the same shirt? Has boat trip led anywhere? Still agree with projection, but it seems to me that if he makes it off island he would have changed his clothes…?
That is a good question. And I can’t think of an answer.
Possibilities…
He never left the island.
He wanted to appear in the clothes that were familiar to everyone so as to not freak them out.
Great name, by the way. Unbreakable. Great movie!
“They call me “Mr. Glass.”
or it wasn’t really walt, but john projecting walt as he remembered him
great theory RMA
The only problem with it being an “illusion” of Walt is that John would have seen Walt as the age he was when he got on the rahft (TM). And that was not the producer’s intent.
heh, thanks ragamuffinjoe! Maybe Walt & Michael have sailed far enough away and left the ‘time protection’ qualities of the island (?) and Walt is now using his mental projection to communicate with Locke on the island’s ‘time frequency’. As Michael and Walt got far enough away from the island, time caught up with them and, effectively, their bodies aged. For Michael (and other adults) this wouldn’t be so noticeable, but Walt being the age he is, this would be even more noticeable than normal.
Perhaps by leaving , Walt and Mike have snapped back into their original timeline, having only spent however many days on the island timeline. Same as what will happen to the Losties upon rescue - leaving the islands time protection zone by sailing away in a boat means chronic catch-up! Noticeable on some more than others. If they have snapped back and Walt has aged, maybe immediately upon rescue or even on their boat still, Walt is projecting to Locke on the island’s time frequency, so THAT is why he is still wearing the same clothes (he hasn’t had a chance to change) which to him will have become comically too short - he’s grown up from 2004 age (original timeline date when he arrived on island) to 2007 age, having only really been on the island for less then 80 days or whatever.
Incidentally - perhaps this age shift phenomena is why Richard Alpert and Ethan Rom are regular swappers of timelines using the postulated two-way Dharma Initiative portal - Hostiles (island local descendants) don’t age at the same rate, so it doesn’t affect their bodies. Whereas everyone else catches up on the amount of aging they have missed out on between their personal detatchment and subsequent reattatchment to that oringinal timeline. Depending on where you jump back to, relative to the point of departure from the original, you would catch up that amount that you have missed. Or if by portal, the date could be set and, say, Richard could leave the island to whatever date (presumably limited to dates within creation date of portal and present time on original timeline) and come back to the island as if he hasn’t been away, but has actually spent several months gathering info and surveilling people in the original timeline. Sending non-island inhabitants using the portal back to a point before they left their original timeline would create paradoxical duplicates and threaten the whole continuum somehow, a la Bunny 15. Alpert and the like can go wherever as they don’t have a counterpart existing in the other timeline.
…
Seemed plausible as I wrote it, but now I read it back, it seems a lot less so. I’ll post anyway. Sorry about the length!
Does the name “Cindy Brady” ring a bell?
She was the youngest girl on a show called “The Brady Bunch.” back in the 70s or so. When the show started the actress was very young, and they put her in stereotypical little girl clothes, pigtails and had her lisp as if she’d lost her front teeth, and all was well.
I have no idea how long that show lasted, but by the time it ended, that kid was well into puberty, probably had breasts, and they were still putting her in cutesie outfits and pigtails and having her lisp. My sisters watched that show, and I remember seeing that kid. The image of a teenager trying to look eight years old still haunts me.
The point is: no matter what they do to Walt, they are never going to be able to fool us into thinking he is 10, I don’t care how big his shirt is. He is taller, thinner, and he’s losing his baby fat. I’m 47; no matter how big my shirt is, I am never going to look 10. Or 20. Or 30 (even though I have regained my baby fat).
Great theory!!! I would like to add a bit on info about Walt and his aging issue… I followed the show dubbed in french and they definitely used a different voice actor for the scene where Walt stops Locke’s suicide…so they surely are not hiding the aging effect.
Oh and I forgot to mention that when the plane crashed, Juliet was reading a Stephen King book…It just might be that the producers are fans ;)
Yeah, so true, what a great theory. In response to some of the comments…I do think Desmond’s gift is a lot different then Walt’s or Ben’s…
I like the Walt bits, and the Shining connection (and J.J. Abrams along with most of the writers admit they are huge King fans). I like some of the Ben bits, but I’m really not convinced he has any supernatural powers, he’s just very clever and manipulative. Getting cancer, being tricked by Jack and being captured twice don’t sound like someone with special abilities, although you could say it was all deliberate. My gut tells me it’s not. And the Richard part just sounds too shoe-horned into the theory, although I do like the remote-time-projection idea, but think it has more relevance to Walt than Ben.
Here is Walt in season 1 with his shirt: http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:1X14_LockeWaltMichael.jpg
And this is in season4: http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Waltdharmapit.jpg
+1
still relevant
New season 4 theory that has cool connections!
http://lost-theories.com/theories/2008/may/22/walt-matthew-abaddon-tall-myst/#comments