John vs. Locke - a man divided against or for himself…
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By Hexagon01
- John vs. Locke - a man divided against or for himself…
- Created: Aug 23, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 2.21: ?
- Status: Current
- Flag this theory:
In keeping with the John Locke analysis I have been persuaded to expand on the ideas that I had in response to Paintgirl’s last posting concerning the Jungian personality test.
Most of us came to the conclusion (based on taking the test as John Locke and answering the questions as accuratley as we could) that he was an NFJ type which seemed largely to favour the inuitive/assertive/judging side. I posited that John Locke’s character has a really strong duality to it. One could group it into two categories: John: the assertive and patient introvert - and Locke: the spontaneous and hot-headed extrovert.
I got to thinking - this duality is clearly influenced direclty by the people that John Locke interacts with. There are times when he is refered to as “John,” and times when he is refered to as “Locke.” An example that I think is minute but significant is when John is in the lunch room at the box factory office. He is playing a strategy game with his co-worker and seems calm and collected. When his boss comes in he refers to John as “Locke,” and almost instantly (not based on the name that he used, but on Randy’s attitude clearly - bear with me) becomes angry, defensive and righteous. This is the first time that we hear him utter the now famous “Don’t tell me what I can’t do!” line that I think defines the “Locke” side of the character. This is just one simple example, but there are many times when the other characters are refering to John as “Locke” when he is being righteous and hot-headed. When he is at his strongest and most idealistic. So I guess it works both ways.
On the other side of the coin we see John - the collected introvert who seems to hold some silent wisdom and genlte suffering. Helen obviously refers to him as “John” and he seemed at his happiest when he was with her. On the Island “John” is the father figure. The wise-man. The nurturer. He helps Claire build a cradle for her birthday. He takes Bonne under his wing (only to have “Locke” sacrifice him to the Island.) He gently prods people in the right direction when they are in need of help. However, John is also the sucker in some ways. Cooper refers to him as “John.” John is trusting and all too human. John is willing to accept people as inherently good. “John” suffers for “Locke” and “Locke” takes action for “John.” In this way the character absolves himself of sin and takes on the role of Martyr and Savior. I struggle to decide weather these two sides are divided against or for the whole. We’ll have to wait and see…
p.s. - I am very high on coffee right now so I apologize if this theory seems rushed. I am an ENFP so I tend to get bored of projects easily! ; )
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| John | John Locke | 3.3, 2.17, 1.4, 1.19, 3.13, 3.19, 4.11, & 3” href=”/episodes/theres-no-place-home-parts-2-3/”>4.13 | 1137 |
Key events
| Theme | Relevant Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|
| Locke Can Walk | 270 |
Hexagon01: I didn’t notice that before, re: being called “John” vs being called “Locke”, but I completely agree with your analysis. In fact, I was —still am, but you know… work is such a nuisance…— preparing something to post on the lines on how Locke tries to “get out of the John”. Pun intended ;-)
+1 from me, for being a keen observer.
Wow the duality that is John Locke - Paint Girls initial idea has really sparked some great thoughts here, this is one of the most interesting post’s I have read in a while. I really like this version of Locke and this makes his character a lot more understandable +1 from me.
what if someone calls him “John Locke”. Does he then cease to exist? :)
Heh…his name IS John Locke…so maybe he never existed in the first place! ; ) Thanks for the comments guys.
WOW Hex! I love your perspective! I agree with all of your points! When you said, “‘John’ is a sucker in someways.” That made me think of who actually calls him John? Then I thought of BEN. Has Ben EVER called him “Locke”? I can just hear Ben say “John” as if he is talking down to him…. I’m read for LOCKE to deal with Ben!!
…and there’s no need to apologize here! ENFP’s rock!
Here, here paintgirl! I find myself feeling sorry for John and rooting for Locke…
Yeah, and just the way that Ben says “John” makes him sound like a loser. “Well, I certainly hope Jacob helps you John” I think that Ben is totally aware of the “spilt personality” that John Locke has and exploits the most easily manipulated side to it’s fullest.
Come on people. Ben probably talks this way to everyone. He also always ends his sentences with “Jack” when talking to Jack.
Oh, xiv…ever the critical one! ; )
These days, I tend to associate John/Locke with Sméagol/Gollum… anyone else feeling the same?
+1 from me Hex.
I also hadnt thought of the John/Locke as a duality.
LOL! Tha’s a little extreme for my tastes Occam! But I get what you’re saying. There is a major difference there, however, in that the Smeagol/Gollum duality sprang from a struggle with an evil that couldn’t be purged. I think that both sides of John Locke are inherently good and their struggle stems from an unwillingness to merge. Locke needs to find a ballance whereas Smeagol struggled to get rid of an oppressive side of himself that was evil plain and simple - AND as we know that evil side won out in the end. What would John Locke’s “precious” be, I wonder…
wow…this turned into a seriously nerdy comment!
Locke’s “precious” is the Island, of course. He wants it for himself, yesss he wantssss it… ;-) And Gollum/Locke will win, or at least is winning right now.
Nerdy? How come?
Hex, as soon as you mentioned “duality”, Claire’s dream of Locke by the fire with one eye being black popped into my head.
I think your perception of John is right on. If or when he does complete the transformation, then he has arguably “traveled” the furtherest of the Losties in that regard.
I hope it’s “when” and not “if” personally. :)
Ha ha…oh, I dunno…LOTR references… just makes me feel kinda…nerdy. ; ) I’m a self proclaimed nerd anyway, so…no shame baby! No shame at all.
Yes, I’m right there with you shamba…
Didn’t geek replace nerd awhile ago? Or do they mean different things?
geek Slang. –noun
a peculiar or otherwise dislikable person, esp. one who is perceived to be overly intellectual.
a computer expert or enthusiast (a term of pride as self-reference, but often considered offensive when used by outsiders.)
a carnival performer who performs sensationally morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken.
nerd Slang. -noun
a stupid, irritating, ineffectual, or unattractive person.
an intelligent but single-minded person obsessed with a nonsocial hobby or pursuit: a computer nerd.
I thought about the Sméagol/Gollum reference because, in my opinion, he is (they are?) the LOTR character best developed, and I see Locke going through a similar transformation: from the “abused/gullible/good-for-nothing” John (Sméagol, always feeling he is being pushed by stronger enemies) to the “man-in-charge/knowing-more-than-anyone-else” Locke (Gollum, who wants “the precious” back to become Masssster and take revenge on all these people who kept abusing him).
But again, nerdy? Really? I strongly disagree! I’m not a nerd! :-)
a carnival performer who performs sensationally morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken.
That’s me alright. Geek it is. Also, I’m Greek so it fits well.
Oh, and BTW Occam - I was calling myself a nerd, not you!
I know, I know… See, I’m so into Tolkien, I just can’t associate LOTR with nerd… ;-)
Hey I’m with you brutha. In high school I got a Tolkien callendar for Chrismas I loved so much that I recycled it for three years (until it was so covered with date corrections that I just cut off the callendar part and hung the prints as posters!)
Tolkien rocks. Led Zeppelin even alluded to his works in their song “Ramble On”.
Don’t I know it sham -
“T’was in the darkest deapths of Mordor I met a girl so fair…”
Awesome…
Whoa, this is great! Excellent analysis Hex. And PG—I loved your insight about the way Ben treats John. You know in the whole submarine episode though it seemed like he was very “John” in being calm, reflective, etc.—but then goes out and blows the sub (or whatever he did with the sub); similarly the Flame station. Maybe the two sides are becoming more integrated and that’s what Ben really has to be wary of.
Just for you shamba…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bLkOE4XDBis
Thanks jaz!
Sweet. Thanks Hex. Some easy listening wake up music. ;)
sip
Good morning Jaz.
I thought your name sounded familiar Occam. Occam’s Razor.
“All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one”
Neat handle and a good philosophy when it comes to theorizing.
Hex: that was masterful.
Take a bow. +7,418,880 from me
bows humbly in Stip’s direction
Mornin’ Sham, and one and all :-)
You’re most welcome Hex.
Hexagon: are you drinking Dharma beer in your profile picture… hmmm… suspicious.. I will send Sayid to interrogate you. (I would have sent Ana Lucia if she wasn’t dead) :)
xiv - LOL!
Yes, deliciously van-warmed, too…
A good mornin’ and a thanks to you, kat.
Hex: Congrats for an awesome anaylsis! You gave us quite an insight into John/Locke. Great read and great discussion all. +1
Mornin all
Hex…thanks for giving me a different perspective on John Locke. I had been seeing it as non-island vs. island John Locke and not John vs. Locke. It really makes sense this way! That’s one of the things I really like about this site…getting the different perspective.
I too have always thought that geek was more computer specific and nerd was more general, but I don’t see anything wrong with either term. I am proud to say that I am a geek. Let your geek/nerd flags fly!
Yes, kat! I like that breakdown…
Hex,
That’s a good observation. +1 from me (and I very rarely vote on theories).
I appreciate it then, iwish!! (Actually, this is the first time a theory of mine has scored in the double-digits - so double thank you!)
p.s. - not that I’m counting or anything… ; )
Hex… well done, my friend.
And great discussion, too.
Remember… Locke doesn’t want to be a piss-poor captain.
Hex: Bravo, well done!
Hex: you always deliver! Now that I think back on it, you have something here with the dual personalities that this character has. I like how you explained your idea. even if you were high on coffee it did not sound rushed.
Good job! =)
+1
Hex,
I like your theory on “John” vs. “Locke.” +1
I’ve always considered John Locke to be “Locke” not John. However, here’s one interesting note. In Season 1, Walt always referred to Locke, as “Mr. Locke.” When we see Walt again in the finale of Season 3, Walt speaks to Locke in the mass grave and refers to his as “John.”
“Get up John, you have work to do.”
This is interesting, because on the island or “island time” Walt would still be 10 years old and would most likely refer to Locke as “Mr. Locke.”
Referring to Locke as “John” may be another indication that Walt is older and wiser - and has indeed traveled back in time to help Locke. It may only be a vision, but the vision has traveled back in time.
Hex mate this is mind blowing. I’m going to look out for this in future eps but I think you just might be on to something here. John Locke (btw xiv he nows ceases to exist lol) does have two very different sides to his character. Pehaps this is yet more evidence that we are dealing with re-runs or timeloops (ducks the projectiles)…… Whatever I think it is excellent thinking. +1
I likey. whenever they are fussing, doesn’t jack always refer to him as John. It;s like he knows that calling him John. immediately places jack in a position of power. Even their names. Jack is a harsh, gutteral sound, while John is a soft blended word that just gldes from beginning to end.
Cool, Thanks for showing me this Hex! I do agree, John is his own worst enemy, always fighting with himself. +1
No wonder Claire saw Locke with one white eye and the other black in her nightmare.
nice. AND the backgammen thing too! black and white, locke and john, his eyes in the nightmare
Wow this is a brilliant analysis of Locke! He is by far the character that I most identify with and I am most interested to see how his story develops. i think he is going to play a very important role in the episodes to come. Also I love the Jungian analysis…it is so nice to see other people picking up on that aspects of the story structure. +1
this is my 1st post on this website so I hope ok not repeating what people have already said but this post got me thinking back to two events in season one. Can’t remember the exact episodes but in one episode someone has a dream (it could be claire) and Locke appears in the dream with one white eye and one black eye (contact lenses) not from a fight. Also when he’s on the beach playin backgammon we see him make a little speech to Walt about the black and white colours. As you probably know black and white are indications of some kind of duality, I’ll let you do your own research and I just thought that this tied nicely in to the post. Don’t laugh!
Nice theory. But whats a NFJ type?