Backgammon—Players, Pieces, and Dice Rolls
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By ragamuffinjoe
- Backgammon—Players, Pieces, and Dice Rolls
- Created: Aug 13, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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Sorry it is such a long post!!! Forgive me…AFTER you are done reading. :)
— ragamuffinjoe
Thanks to Profozone and you_knowthename’s posts about Chess and Backgammon (and Yahoo games) I was able to start putting together the Backgammon theory/connection. I have been talking with people, and last night DSnumberonefan and I started to come up with the players, pieces, and dice rolls in the show. Thanks to KB’s post, http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/11/chess-and-lost/ , I decided to post what I think I have come up with.
Before moving on in this post, if you haven’t read my original Backgammon post, please do that first. This theory relies solely on that and the discussions that went along with it.
http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/09/backgammon-live-together-die-a/
Okay, now to the details of the game as I see it relating to lost.
The board—logic draws you to think it is the island, but I actually believe it is the world-at-large. The game extends pass the island and in to the lives of the losties and hostiles (and who ever else). The board is the world.
The players—my thoughts on this have changed as I have thought about it. I think our players represent two sides. One side is humanity and the other side is the universe (fate, karma, whatever you want to call it). I believe that Jacob represents the side of humanity. I originally thought that Ms. Hawkings was the person representing the universe, but now I believe that it is Walt. Walt seems to be above space-time, and he has powers that no one else seems to possess. The line that does it for me in relation to this is in TTLG when Walt tells John that he has work to do, and then John tells Jack that he is not “supposed to” call the boat. I see this as the attempt of the universe to course correct. Summary—Jacob=humanity and Walt=universe.
The pieces—this is where things get tricky. Not all characters are pieces. Some are pieces and some are dice rolls (which I will get to later). The pieces are those who have not been used by both sides (without letting themselves be used—like Jack). There are obvious pieces and then there are others that are very debatable. Debate away when you are done reading!! Here goes my thoughts (oh, and I have a feeling there will be fifteen pieces per side—obviously I don’t know them all yet):
Humanity pieces—Ben, Richard, and Mikhail. These are the only ones I am certain of.
Universe pieces—Jack, Desmond, John, Michael, Sayid , and maybe Charlie (I will explain his part as well).
Pieces that we know not the allegiance of…Juliet, Kate, Sawyer, Danielle, Alex, and Christian.
I know I am leaving A LOT of people out, but this plays in to dice rolls.
Dice rolls—chance is what equals the rolls of the dice that the two sides have to “play” their turns with. They have to use strategy to move their pieces using the “dice rolls. People and situations are the dice rolls of chance. People that die, I say cannot be pieces, so they are definitely dice rolls (I will explain later why I do not think that pieces can die). Also, people without allegiance and have been used by either side I think are chance rolls (the either side using is relative though, because I have pieces that his has happened with…I will address this in the endgame).
People dice rolls—Hurley (he seems to be a wild card to the game that both sides have used a little—humanity exploited Dave, he has been the uplift for universe pieces, and other things, but I am trying to cut this long thing a little shorter), Sun and Jinn (the pregnancy seems to be a point of contention between the two sides), Rose and Bernard, all dead characters, and all the others that fit into this (help me think of them, will you? :) ). Yes, some I have mentioned may actually pieces, but that is one of the things I want to discuss here!!
Situational dice rolls—Desmond/Kelvin not pressing the button, 815 crashing, Naomi landing on the island, etc (growing weary of the long post, so you can help me here… :) ).
The colors of the peices—I do not think we have enough info to know who is dark and who is light. I think it will be revealed in later seasons and slowly. My gut says that it will be humanity as dark and universe as white, but who knows??
Gameplay—in Backgammon, you change your strategy with what you role in your dice rolls…which already fits in with what I have said. However you can “eat” other players that are alone on a point. Once “eaten” the pieces move to the bar, and you have to use a dice roll that allows you to move them to an open point. If you can’t move them you lose a turn. Sometimes you allow this to happen as a part of strategy…you would just have to play to understand this. The pieces are not out or dead, just on the bar waiting to be put back into play. This is why I believe characters that are pieces cannot die…explaining Mikail (though I think the producers will use science to explain this). This is why I believe Charlie is a piece. How many times has he almost died since the pilot? A lot. I believe the producers will bring him back…he did not really die…though I really don’t want to discuss this here. This is also why I don’t think that John could have killed Jack. Anyway, many of the pieces have almost died and also been captured. The can’t be killed because they are pieces. They are captured as a part of the game. I believe Jack staying with the others may have been an allowance of capture as strategy. Anyway, you get the idea.
The endgame—in Backgammon, the player that returns all of their pieces to the “home” spot. How do the pieces return their pieces in Lost? When the “pieces” accept their place with their “side”. The side that has all their pieces accepting their “roles” then that side will be able to win the board—the world at large. This could be different, but I need new ideas. :)
Oh yeah, the doubling cube…I earlier said that I thought it was Walt, but now I believe it is the island itself. The island ups the ante of the game…and I believe it is rolled up to 64…the greatest stakes you can have in the game. Whoever wins the island wins the game.
I think I may have made some bad assumptions, but you get the idea. I do believe more pieces and rolls are to be revealed, but I do think it is an underlying theme of the show (one of MANY).
What do you think??
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Walt | Walter “Walt” Lloyd | 2.2, 1.14 | 345 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.23 | Live Together, Die Alone | 5-24-2006 | Desmond | 321 |
| 2.22 | Three Minutes | 5-17-2006 | Michael | 131 |
| 2.21 | ? | 5-10-2006 | Eko | 167 |
| 2.20 | Two for the Road | 5-3-2006 | Ana-Lucia | 96 |
| 2.19 | S.O.S. | 4-12-2006 | Rose, Bernard | 102 |
I am almost speechless. This is so beautifully written. I had the backgammon thought myself yesterday but I couldn’t think of how best to translate it and this is just what I hope I might have come up with if I was on top form. I honestly love it and that is high praise indeed. +1 doesn’t do it justice.
Thank you very much. It has been a week-ish long work-in-progress. Any thoughts to add or differing thoughts on players and pieces?
joe: I agree with mrss! This is beautifully written! +1
Thanks!
Interestingly enough, although I love the theory I would almost entirely swap the suggestions you have made for the characters that embody fate and humanity. If anything I see the characters of Jack, Desmond, Sayid et al as those that challenge the idea of fate and Ben and comrades as those who embody the universe.
My thoughts around the idea were less on the players I’ll admit and more on the game itself. I was trying to think of how you could translate a game of gammon into the show. Ie, how do the individual moves parallel the show.
This might sound daft but when I play gammon I’m a risk taker and I try and get my vulnerable pieces out of the trap straight away, risking that I may lose them but I’ll get where I’m going faster. I was thinking that Ben seems to play this way whereas the more careful players approach the game steadily and carefully and still lose - ie Jack, Desmond.
I think your way is a better way of looking at it though and I’m still in awe.
I see what you mean about the switching the sides. Good point! Because Desmond seems not to listen to the universe!! I did not even think of it that way.
Strike what I have said and switch the sides!!! :)
+1 Nice theory…
“People that die, I say cannot be pieces, so they are definitely dice rolls”
In backgammon, after a piece is finishes its travel around the board let’s just say it “exits” the board. Can’t you look at that as the piece finishing it’s job (death of the character)?
KB: Nice.
KB…I thought about that. And maybe. I thought maybe those who have made peace exit the board (Boone, Shannon, Eko, etc…), and maybe that is why Mikail and Richard won’t die…they won’t until they serve their purpose and/or make peace. Maybe this is why Christian seems alive.
The reason I did not go with this because I did not know how to fit it in to the endgame. Any thoughts on how to do this?
Really nice one raga! Great written as well!
However, I don’t really agree with you’re pieces and players. Actually I think there is more than two sides at work. But if I’m to go along with your theory I’m a bit sceptical about Walt being the main force working against Jacob. I’ve always put him close to Jacob and more as a very important piece in Jacob’s “game”. I think the players are more likely to be Jacob vs Ben, or Jacob vs Alvar Hanso. I also lean towards Jacob being more of a “universe” guy. Why do you think he’s on the humanity side?
Another intriguing idea would be if Jacob is only a piece, who is trapped until the opposing side moves the blocking pieces.
When it comes to the pieces I would definitley say that both Jack and Desmond are working against the universe. They are both “fate benders”.
The island as the doubling cube was a very nice analogy. I like it a lot!
Great post!
Cheers!
Roger, I like your idea of Jacob as a piece!!! Awesome!!! I love it!!
What if maybe it is Walt vs. Ben if that is the case?
Raga, to use the gammon thing further, if Shanon, Boone and the rest are pieces and not dice rolls perhaps they were the gammon pieces that are already inside the end zone, if you know what I mean.
Consider the board. Before the game commences the pieces are already in place. Some are further along the board than others. Ie some are in the last quadrant from which they make their final exit from the board. I think that’s how you can tie togther your theory with KBs thoughts.
Yeah, that is what I was thinking before I came up with the one I posted. Like I said, I just could not figure out the endgame.
Let me mess your theory up a little with a small idea.
The board is the island and not the universe.
Beginning of the game the pieces are out
Roll #1 : The plane crash - the pieces enter the board
Last Roll : All the pieces exit the board - leave the island.
I think it is broader than that, though it could be. I think the game spans more people and time than just what we have seen on the island.
But as always with Lost, it could be either of the two (but probably something else :) ).
Regarding my last comment, actually only one sides pieces would exit the board….there would still be pieces on the board from the other side.
Awesome theory.
I agree with Roger Workmans comments. I think your description of the end game is spot on.
Last roll could be Jack returning to the island.
That could be the final move…I wonder what it entails…hmmm….defeating Ben?
Well done, Joe. :-)
Thanks, Prof! Any further thoughts on this?
There’s a theory over at www.4815162342.com that reminds me of this a lot.
http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43003
Tell me how mine compares to you and if you have any thoughts on it, Hoodoo. I love the conversation…it helps me solidify my thought!
First off, it’s not my theory.
The one on 4815162342.com reminds me of yours in the sense that the characters on Lost are being manipulated by something—whether it’s the island, fate, universe, Jacob etc etc.
They are both great overall narratives to the story, and the most striking similarities, I feel, are the use of players assigned to certain roles.
Whereas you use white vs. black pebbles assigned to a character on opposing sides, he uses chess pieces arranged opposingly.
From a philosophical standpoint, I feel that both of these theories are spot on. The characters are unknowingly fighting against fate without realizing their free will might be nonexistent.
Anyways, great theory! I loved reading it!
Okay…I see what you mean. Yeah. I agree. I think the producers gave us the clue of backgammon for a context in which to think about the manipulation.
Thanks for the link and for the complement!