Backgammon—Live Together, Die Alone
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By ragamuffinjoe
- Backgammon—Live Together, Die Alone
- Created: Aug 9, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 14, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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Live together, die….nevermind, you know the deal.
— ragamuffinjoe
Okay, You-Know-The-Name beat me to this in the post, but I wanted to make a separate thread.
I starting learning about and playing backgammon yesterday (Yahoo has a game room where you can learn and play) after reading a thread where everyone on lost was referred to as a “player.” I read the chess thread today ( http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/08/boards-pieces-and-players-inte/ ), and I could not help but want to apply the same thinking to backgammon (the game the producers gave us). So here is my attempt at applying what I learned.
Here are the basics of backgammon according to Yahoo:
Backgammon is a race game for two players. Except for the doubling cube, which was added in the twentieth century, the game has been played in its current form for about 400 years. Games that are close relatives of backgammon have been played from Europe to the Far East since ancient times. Backgammon is a 2 player game. The four quadrants of the backgammon board are labeled as shown. The triangular-shaped spaces that the checkers occupy are known as “points.” The numbers along the top and bottom of the board indicate the names of the different points. For example, the lower right point is White’s 1-point, and the point where three red checkers begin is Red’s 8-point. The object of the game is to be the first player to move all of his or her checkers off the board. Each player begins with 15 checkers—also called pieces or men—which are set up on a board as shown. Each player in turn rolls two dice, then moves his or her checkers according to the numbers shown on the dice. One checker is moved the exact amount showing on one die, then another checker—or the checker that just moved—is moved the exact amount on the other die. The use of a doubling cube adds another strategic dimension to backgammon. Similar in size to a die, a doubling cube has faces showing the numbers 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 64. When a game begins, the cube is normally turned so the 64 is on top. At any point during the game, a player who is about to roll the dice may turn the doubling cube so that the 2 is on top and offer it to the opponent. The opponent must then decide whether to pass, thereby conceding the game, or accept, agreeing to continue playing for twice the stakes. A player who accepts a double gains control, or possession, of the cube. At any point in the game, just before rolling, the player who owns the cube may propose a redoubling of the stakes by turning it to the next higher number and offering it to the opponent, who may pass (losing the current value of the cube) or accept (agreeing to the new stakes and gaining control of the cube). To double or redouble at Yahoo!, a player simply clicks the Double button. Backgammon is often played as a match, or series of games, that is won by the first player to reach a specific number of points—a point being the value of winning a regular undoubled game. If a game ends with the doubling cube at 4, for example, the winner gets four points, or eight points if the result was a gammon.
Okay, sorry, I know that is a lot. Here is how I have put it together with Lost so far:
Two players, light and dark—their are two players in backgammon. From the dicussions here, we have conceded that we have at least two sides. I say there is a choice of two sides light and dark (good and evil), Hostiles/DI, humanity/universe, faith/science, or maybe something I left out. I personally lean towards humanity and the universe (humanity lead by Jacob (or Ben or Richard) and the universe lead by Ms. Hawkings).
Dice add chance to the game—what you role changes the strategy of the game. If you make a bad roll, anything can happen in the game. In Lost I think fate rolls the dice. And each faction has to play strategy with the roll. Each twist of fate is a role of dice and is the chance in the game. 815 crashing is a roll of the dice, the lives of the Losties are rolls of the dice (Claire being pregnant, John being paralyzed, etc…), and so on and so forth. The two sides are playing what is rolled.
The doubling cube—the doubling cube adds even more chance to the game and raises the stakes. I believe in Lost that Walt is the doubling cube. I believe there is something special about him that raises the stakes for both sides.
Live together, die alone—in backgammon, if you leave a checker without a pair or group, you can be “taken”. Those peices can come back into play, but you really want to avoid leaving a checker alone…you want to move them together when possible. In Lost, all characters that have died (that I can think of and besides Nikki and Paulo) were seperated from their pair or group at the time (we can get into this in the post discussion of this).
The numbers are all over backgammon. ‘Nuff said.
And I am sure there are a lot more things with this, but my brain hurts. So on with the discussion.
Please be nice. :)
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Richard | Richard Alpert | 309 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2.23 | Live Together, Die Alone | 5-24-2006 | Desmond | 321 |
| 2.22 | Three Minutes | 5-17-2006 | Michael | 131 |
| 2.21 | ? | 5-10-2006 | Eko | 167 |
| 2.20 | Two for the Road | 5-3-2006 | Ana-Lucia | 96 |
| 2.19 | S.O.S. | 4-12-2006 | Rose, Bernard | 102 |
Similar theories
| Title | Author | Cmnts | Votes | Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| The Boards, the Pieces, and the Players: Integrated Chess Theory | ProfOzone | 76 | 31 | +23 |
Heh… awesome…
Thanks, Prof. I really dug yours about chess as well. I just think the backgammon connection might be the game connection they want us to make. It is a fun game, by the way. You should look into it. It is very addicting.
very nice RJ—I especially like the idea of Walt as the doubling cube.
On your fourth point—and thinking about the idea that Kate is playing backgammon by herself in “Left Behind”—Kate is certainly a piece on her own in that ep—first left by Jack and then by Locke. A sign that she may have been “taken” (either turned or a double agent), or the other person on his own in that period of time is Sayid. We don’t really know yet what happened to him then.
Yeah, I had a pretty nice set when I was a kid. Haven’t played in ages. Not even sure I still know how.
Good points, jaz.
Jaz, that is the thing about this theory…the Losties, Others, DI, etc are all rolls of the dice. They ALL can be used by either side.
I like your Kate playing both sides theory. That helps a gap in another theory I have been working on for like a month. Thanks!
i wrote a theory about backgammon for a few days ago
“and now for the biggest mistery of the all (for me) is that. In the beginning of season one, you could see Locke and walt meeting for the first time, Walt asked what Locke was playing “backammon” he answerd. And he also said that backammon came from Mesopotamien. And then there was nothing more with that?
so i checked out Mesopotamien, and it’s the city were mankinds first civilisation had an start! and if you search on the net. http://www.compaya.hu/Image/4669/Mesopotamien.jpg (this is from a silly game) but you’l see a big god, and you can see the mankind at it’s knee. so i relate this to the statue.. with four toes.
Couse ben said to Richard “you lead the others to the temple as planed” the tempel? could that be the statue with the four toes?
and when jack in season one, determins to move all the people from the beach to the caves, they’ve found two dead bodies right? and they’ve found two stones or was it backammon stones? One black, and one white.. and they joke about “maybe it’s adam and eve”
and when i think of that john lock said that he saw the island in it’s eye. And it was beutiful. And when he saw the black “monster” he almost got scared. so did he see another “monster” we hadn’t seen yet? like there is one black and one white “monster” on the island? the black is for the sins and the white is the good one? and does jacob control these?”
are we on the same track? same island? ^^
Great post. And along with that, in at least one vision, Claire’s, but someone told me maybe another one, John has one dark eye and one light eye.
I do think that we are on to something.
You and YKTN are awesome.
Aside from the two games mentioned in both your threads (chess and backgammon) I can’t think of another dark and light or black and white game on Lost aside from John playing a WWII game at work (Axis vs. Allies).
I’m reminded of the stones found with Adam and Eve. They look like backgammon pieces.
Like the “real game” had been played by these two (man and woman and black and white) and won or came to a draw or a peace of sorts.
All is good with the universe ying and yang type of thing. Our Losties are just part of a struggle that has gone on for eternity deal?
Just drifiting on my astral plane as usual. See you all Friday for cocktails! :)
Andy, your reference to Mesopotamia made me remember as this is modern day Iraq, isn’t that where the Garden of Eden was supposed to be? So I looked up Mesopotamia to try and find out (couldn’t find it), but found several other interesting facts:
They used base 60 from which our modern day measurements of time and our use of degrees in measuring space come from (as in latitude and longitude).
They made astronomical predictions including knowing when the solstice would occur. It’s also the birthplace of astrology.
They imagined the universe as an island born out of the sea surrounding it.
I will set up the bar and the casual friday meeting thread when I wake up in the AM…I have some plans that could make it a regular friday deal, so please noone beat me to it. :) Great thread to all… :)
If you like the post, give me some +1 love!!!! This is the first decent post I have had in a while! :)
There is another game that may fit the descriptions we have been talking about…stratego! For those not familiar, two sides, both have an army, both have pieces of varying strengths, and the object is to capture the other sides general…but unlike backgammon, there is no dice, the elements of chance are dictated by the players and the placements of their armies..
Dear ragamuffinjoe,
Couldn’t have said it better myself! +1, my friend…
+1 from me RJ (thanks to jaz for the shortcut on your name!) Also a great catch as was yktn’s. I think you both got it right!
Raggamuffin: This is a well articulated theory! +1.
Thank you all. Does anyone see any other connections with backgammon?
Good point, but I think this continues through the other seasons as well. How has Ben and the universe dealt with what has been rolled? There are times when almost everyone has been used for one side or the other. I think backgammon is one of the many underlying themes.
Okay. Gotcha. Thanks for the support! :)
Interestingly, with respect to point number four….both Ben and Ms Hawkings both emphasize the word” single” in their statements of doom………”every SINGLE living person will die”
great post.
Thanks!!
Ragamuffinjoe: nice post. Well written, organized, supported by evidence and then a little bit of conjecture based on the implications. Well done.
Tell me what you think about this: one key difference between chess and backgammon: the dice. the move is totally reliant upon it, but gives the player a limited number of options (free will) to choose from in making the move. As opposed to chess, the move is totally in control of the player, until one player begins to achieve an advantage. At that point, as ProfO said, that player controls the board, and while the player at the disadvantage thinks they have free will, the moves they make are really dictated by the player in control.
Does that make sense? +1 from me.
Dear Stip,
Regarding the dice - Precisely!
Please see my earlier question, which was then stolen (I’m joking rmj, lol) and expanded upon…
http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/09/alternative-board-question-not/
Yes Stip!! That is great!! And it goes right along with the show. Free will versus predestination. With backgammon your free will is limited by fate. That is how the show works. The two sides are limited in choice by faith (the people and situations that fate “rolls” at them.
Awesome!!
Good post, very thought provoking.