More Flashes Before Your Eyes…
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By you_know_the_name
- More Flashes Before Your Eyes…
- Created: Aug 8, 2007
- Last updated: Aug 13, 2008
- After episode: 3.22: Through The Looking Glass
- Status: Current
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This theory is meant to complement the other recent theories concerning Desmond’s visions, especially xiv’s http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/07/some-thoughts-over-demond-time/ and dabiatchishere’s http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/aug/07/flashes-your-eyes/
It poses a similar yet alternative explanation to these events, and should be seen as a reply/rebuttal to dabiatchishere’s excellent theory.
For dabiatchishere’s theory to work, we have to make these following, unproven assumptions - 1) The universe is made up of 7 planes of existence. 2) Neotheosophy presents the idea that the causal plane is the region where memories and karmic patterns are stored, and where a practitioner can access information regarding the past and future. 3) The human body is made up of electromagnetism
Unfortunately, there is currently no scientific proof to support the 7 planes of existence, or even the paranormal/supernatural event known as astral projection. Furthermore, the human body is made up of a variety of energies, and not solely electromagnetism.
While I’m no fan of the time-travel explanations, I’m certain Carlton and Damon have acknowledged that Desmond did in fact time-travel to his past in “Flashes before your eyes”.
Furthermore, I believe that the writers of Lost want to keep the show grounded in reality as much as possible. As “time-travel” is theoretically possible in the physical universe, I believe they might see reason to include it, albeit sparingly.
What follows is a theory that invokes “time-travel,” but not in the conventional sci-fi sense…
That said, here’s a reproduction of the argument I gave in xiv’s post on how electromagnetism can give someone visions of the future, or even travel to his past:
Fact
Brains work by sending out electrical impulses that stimulate nerves, ultimately resulting in a said action (be it thinking, typing, moving etc)
According to the well-established laws of electromagnetism, Maxwell’s equations show the connections between electricity and magnetism.
In the 1980s and 1990s, while working on a Grand Unified Theory, or Theory of Everything to unite General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, a lot of research was done to combine the four known forces (gravitation, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces) into a theoretical framework that included Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.
The effort proved quite successful. A field called Quantum Electrodynamics was born, combining (you guessed it) QM and EM. The only arena they were unsuccessful in was finding a quantum theory of gravity - the Holy Grail in Theoretical Physics.
Fiction:
The casimir effect and the apparent time-travel can only be explained by quantum mechanics. The electromagnetic anomaly obviously is explained by EM.
What IF - The anomaly’s explosion somehow managed to warp and influence the space-time around it (ie where Desmond was) resulting in a “rewiring” of Desmond’s brain?
Like I’ve said, brains send electrical impulses. The anomaly, with the additional quantum effects managed to somehow unlock the truth of the many-worlds theory within him. The theory basically states (from wikipedia)
The many-worlds interpretation or MWI is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that claims to resolve all the “paradoxes” of quantum theory by allowing every possible outcome to every event to define or exist in its own “history” or “world”, via the mechanism of quantum decoherence, instead of wavefunction collapse. History, which prior to many worlds had been viewed as a single “world-line”, is rather a many-branched tree where every possible branch of history is realized.
In effect, Desmond did travel to his “past” when the hatch exploded. To me, this is just one of Desmond’s histories that could have been playing out. Essentially, he was seeing himself in another life! Please note that I’m suggesting Desmond was physically present on the island, but his mind was connected to his past. Why did he travel to the day he fell in Penny’s apartment? It could be because this was the day that shaped his “future” - the day he meets Charles Widmore to ask for his approval to marry Penny.
As Desmond’s memories of the island were still fresh, he recognized Charlie playing on the street. However, the present Charlie (on the island) has no memory of the encounter. As mentioned in some of my other posts, how much can a person remember after many years, especially if he appears to be a random “crackpot” on the street?
Let’s not forget that Desmond was clean-shaven at the time, but he’s always been bearded on the island. So, even if Charlie did vaguely remember the incident, he may have assumed it was somebody else. Furthermore, the only thing that may have stood out in his life on that day was when he saved Nadia in the alley, where she called him a hero. This memory could have been so strong that it drowned out all other memories Charlie had that day.
So, the electromagnetic anomaly sends Desmond to relive that fateful day, and his consciousness returns to the island when he’s knocked out in the pub. In total, Desmond has spent 2 days in one of his possible “pasts”. Only the events in that 2-day timeline were changed somewhat (like Desmond’s talk with Miss Hawking and his friend at the university). All the other things that Desmond changed simply by being in his past (thanks to the butterfly effect) were course-corrected by the universe.
The only thing that the universe had a problem course-correcting was Desmond’s encounter with Charlie. Charlie Pace wasn’t supposed to meet Desmond until he got to the Island. But now he did! THIS is why Desmond’s future is explicitly linked to Charlie’s; hence his visions always end up with Charlie dying. He had to help in the course-correction…ProfOzone was right all along – Desmond did kill Charlie!
For this theory to work exactly, Desmond should not have anymore visions in season 4.
But even if he does, the alternate-time explanation seems to work just as well as the astral projections one.
As for the average viewer to understand the complex ideas behind this theory, all they need to know is this—the explosion of the electromagnetic anomaly at the end of season two rewired his brain, allowing him to be open to visions and hence “time-travel”. So, he unintentionally traveled into his past for 2 days, where he changed certain things. The universe course-correcting took care of most of the changes, but Desmond needed to correct some of his own. Once he did, his visions stopped, as the timeline was ultimately preserved.
What do you think?
Key characters
| Short Name | Full Name | Episodes | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|
| Charlie | Charlie Pace | 1.7, 1.2, 2.10, 1.24, 3.21 | 403 |
| Desmond | Desmond David Hume | 2.23, 3.17, 4.5 | 851 |
Key episodes
| # | Title | Aired | Central character | Theories |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.22 | Through The Looking Glass | 5-23-2007 | Jack | 1251 |
| 3.21 | Greatest Hits | 5-16-2007 | Charlie | 171 |
| 3.8 | Flashes Before Your Eyes | 2-14-2007 | Penny | 233 |
Superbly written YKTN.
Here is a great NOVA program called “The Elegant Universe”. It covers quite a bit from Einstein’s Theory of Relativity to String Theory.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
Dear Shamballa,
Actually, I have the Nova program as well as Brian Greene’s (the host) 2 books, The Elegant Universe and The Fabric of the Cosmos.
In my opinion, both are among the best books on string theory and astrophysics yet written!
Thanks for the feedback, and the recommendation…
Very cool YKTN.
I liked the program because it made these complicated theories easier to understand.
I’ll have to check out Fabric of the Cosmos.
Excellent post,yktn. I, agree with your theory, of course and gave you +1.
The wonderful thing about good writers is that they make complicated things easy to understand, like in story form. You are a good writer.
Glad you are here!!!
Dear everyone,
An interesting question just came to mind: When Desmond woke up (after the pub incident), did he have any memories from his future self?
I’m inclined to think not, because Desmond would then have known about all the decisions he would have made up to the point he does travel back in time.
I found an explanation in the movie The Butterfly Effect, which in my opinion is the only movie thus far that got the “time-travel” scenario right. When the future Evan (the protagonist) traveled back in time (also via the mind, and not physically), his future self erased the memories of his past self. As a boy, Evan would have unexplainable blackouts - all that correspond to the future Evan inhabiting the same body (or mind).
So, in the case of Desmond, what could have happened when he woke up in the pub was a mild amnesia of sorts: which the “past”, oblivious Desmond would have attributed to getting knocked out by the baseball bat. The past 2 days of his life would appear hazy or “erased,” and it started when he fell in Penny’s apartment - another instance where he hurt his head!
To this “past” Desmond, the 2 days of blackout could be explained with “head trauma.” Only when the “future” Desmond traveled into his past would the answer become clear…
Dear annie79,
Thanks for the compliment :)
YTKN, the hang up I have is that if an alternate reality exists for each possible outcome, for each person on earth, then the number of simultaneous realities existing at any given time is unimaginable. Sorry, but I am of the belief that time is linear, that once a particular moment has passed that it cannot be altered. Also, I felt you were a little tough on XIV. While his theory of the seven planes of existence may not have scientific roots, I don’t think it is any less plausible than the time travel theories. Especially if there is a past for each decision. Where do all these concurrent realities exist? Do past, present, and future exist at the same time?
ditto what others have said yktn—excellent follow-up to dab’s theory.
and kat—what you said has given me an idea—think I’ll post it separately.
also ditto on Brian Greene—have read Fabric but not elegant
Dear lockeko,
Actually, it was Dab’s theory. And I wasn’t trying to be harsh - She gets the credit for the one who got me thinking!
As you said, if this were true, “the number of simultaneous realities existing at any given time is unimaginable.”
There are “fact weirder than fiction” theories, especially in the realm of astrophysics and theoretical physics that postulates there could be as many as 10^500 universes, each with it’s own distinct histories! Hence we live in a multiverse.
Furthermore, if we were to consider Richard Feynman’s “some-over-histories” of Quantum Mechanics, rather than the Compenhagen interpratation, it gives rise that EACH of us could in fact have as many as 10^500 seperate histories!
10^500 times 10^500 times 6+ billion people times everything else is unimaginable even to ME, hence it’s rounded to infinity!
What else, Hawking’s discussions on the “Arrow of Time” suggest that time is in fact non-linear, but humans percieve it to be so as we don’t know any better (like how we percieve we are watching images move on tv when in fact it’s ONE dot of color moving faster than the eye can see, or that we can’t imagine a ball in four dimensions).
I’m not making up this numbers! And I didn’t come up with these theories!
And yes, dab’s theory could be right, as well… This is just an alternative explanation which could turn out to be wrong.
Actually, yktn, they could just be two ways of saying the exact same thing. There isn’t really any such thing as “science vs. faith”, after all.
;-)
Dear ProfOzone,
Hear Hear! :D
I think the number of alternate realities would be to enormous for this theory to hold water. basically, if there is an alternte reality for every decision each human makes, going back to the original beginnings of human kind, I think we would overload the circuit so to speak. and to go with that, why should alternate realities be limited to people. As all pet owners know, pets make choices every day, maybe without a level of awareness that humans have, but choices nonetheless. Next if only important life altering decisions result in alternate realities, who is deciding which decisions are worthy of divergent realities. I mean does this theory mean somewhere Hitler won, somewhere else no 9-11, somewhere else Gore won the election and became president. I just think much of what we think of as reality is our own consciouness seeking to make our existence important, while what really is happening is that the earth is continuing to turn, and that we are just passer’s though on the journey of life
Good theory. I still believe Des never traveled anywhere. I think someone or something (Hawking, Fate, etc.) made Desmond relive that specific time in his life because it was the most crucial decision he’s ever made, and therefore would be the best moment for Hawking to hammer into his head that everything course-corrects.
So why does Desmond have these visions of Charlie dying? Is he defying Hawking by altering Charlie’s path, or was Hawking giving him the necessary information to make sure Charlie got to the LG? Is he the enemy of course-correction, or is he an instrument of it?
Both.
He hasn’t picked a side yet. But he will.
Dear lockeko,
In reference to your post above - YES! That’s what the many-worlds theory postulates! And there is some evidence to suggest it. See Richard Feynman’s take on the Double-Slit experiment… You’ll be amazed at what his sum-over-histories suggests!
But most of what’s happening on Lost is fiction anyway, so what the writers do is to take a theory that works on a quantum-mechanical level and place it in the “macro” world.
For more info on what I mean, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralleluniverse%28fiction%29
If Lost has opened the doors for time-travel (and it looks to be so), it’s a show that suggests a violation of fundamental principles of causality and relativity, and are extremely misleading since the information-theoretic structure of the path space of multiple universes (that is information flow between different paths) is very likely extraordinarily complex.
But this is exactly what time-travel brings to the picture, hence my displeasure of it being invoked.
Like you, I would love a linear timeline and explanation. However, this doesn’t appear to be the case for now.
What’s more, IF there is a theory that can explain Desmond’s vision of the past AND visions of the future, “time-travel”, be it the tapping into a parallel or exactly same universe (like I have theorized), or astral projection (Dab’s) seem to be the only candidates at present.
Do you have a completely linear explanation? I’d love to hear it ;)
Dear Youalleverybody,
If Desmond didn’t travel anywhere, how did he get to relive his past?
He has visions of Charlie dying because he interfered with the normal course of events in his past, so he had to fix it.
And like ProfOzone said, Desmond has yet to make a choice, and I believe THE choice.
Remember, Ms Hawking tells him the greatest thing he’ll do in his life is to push the button. Is this the button in the Swan? But wasn’t turning the switch to implode the hatch more important, as it had larger consequences? Could there be another button that Desmond needs to push before it’s all over?
That’s my point, I don’t think he “relived” anything, meaning I don’t think he was physically back in the past. It was just a vision in my opinion. It’s like dreaming…..you can relive events in your dreams at night, but that has no bearing on anything that happened in the past. Your mind is just using the memories stored inside your brain to create a setting for your dream. For whatever reason Ms. Hawking was there, she chose the memories of that time in Des’ life as the best setting to drive home her point. So in essence, I guess what I’m saying is that Desmond didn’t relive anything, he just dreamed about reliving it. Get what I mean, or am I confusing you even more?
Dear youalleverybody,
I understand what you’re saying, but how does this explain Desmond’s “future” visions? And how did Ms Hawking get into his dream to begin with? And as far as I understand it, there’s nothing coherent about a dream (it’s all just RANDOM events mixed together in a certain way that is NOT supposed to make any sense!)
Also, why is Des naked when he wakes up? And if Des’ dream has no bearing on anything that happened in the past, why does Desmond’s fate suddenly get intertwined with Charlie’s, after he bumps into him in a dream?
you know the name: question for you:
Have you ever read the book FlashForward by Robert Sawyer? In that book, an event happens to a character much like what happened to Desmond. Picture Des in his apartment with Penny. He’s standing on a ladder painting with red paint. The “incident” referred to by Dr. Marvin Candle happens on the island. Desmond blacks out. His mind is cast forward to the island. The incident only last for a few minutes. Des wakes up on the floor covered in red paint and begins to remember all of the things that have happened to him between then and the island. Sorry for the long buildup, here’s the question:
Was Des thrown forward while on the ladder or did he travel backwards when he turned the key in the Swan?
Hey Stip! Interesting question…so let me clarify what you are actually asking…(Bare with me!!) :)
SO, do you mean: 1. Did Desmond Mind-Travel to the “Future” (to his “Island Life”) when he originally fell off the ladder?………..And then return back to the ladder (to his “Penny Life”) after he turned the key? …AND THEN Mind-Travel AGAIN to his “Future Island Life” when he was hit on the head in the bar? ….Holy Smokes! that would be a lot of traveling.
SORRY if I am making this MORE complicated than it needs to be… I tend to OVER analyze sometimes. Anyway, here is my answer: I think his mind traveled backwards to the ladder moment and he “relived the past w/Penny” and then went back to the “present time” of the Island after the bar scene. Just my opinion…
BTW, what does “STIP” stand for?
Dear Stip,
I second what Paintgirl says. I think Desmond’s experience was a “flash-back,” to his past. In my opinion, The first flash foward used on Lost was with Jack in the season 3 finale.
Exactly YKTN! I can’t wait for more flash forwards though!!
YKTN,
I think whatever happened with the hatch imploding is what gave Desmond his flashes of Charlie dying. And as far as Charlie being in his dream/vision, who’s to say that it wasn’t just another kind of “flash”. If Des’ mind can be linked to Charlie’s when he’s awake, why not also when he’s dreaming? And correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Charlie also in the hatch when it imploded? That could be your linkage right there.
Dreams don’t have to be random. I’d say the majority of them are random, but I can distinctly remember some dreams of my own that were anything but random, not to mention very coherent. But if it is more satisfying to you, think of this episode as Des’ vision.
And yes, the two questions that I can’t wait to have answered, as I believe they are big and meaningful, are: Why is Des naked when he wakes up?….and….Who is Hawking and why is she there? And to piggy-back on the last one….Why is she in the monk’s picture?
(By the way, great discussion. This is why I love this show.)
Dear YouAllEverybody,
Thanks, and you could be right about Charlie and the dreams, of course.
But my theory is just one alternative explanation, not the gospel truth :)
That’s why we call ‘em theories. And of all the theory-sites I’ve been on, this is easily my favorite not only because of the organization of the site, but also the abundance of well-thought-out opinions.
I second that, YouAll!
BTW….have you been on this site long enough to figure out what the tin foil hats and headbands are for? something strange is going on…just ask jaz or stip….
Heh, Paintgirl—It all started here: http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/jul/20/implosion-effect/
And then the headband idea was cause I said to kat that she knocks my socks off with some of her theories—and for that you only need the headband, not the entire headgear.
you know the name,
I have some questions…somewhat paralleling lockeko perhaps. I don’t like to be a contrarian, but the multi-verse concept doesn’t sit well with me insofar as it relates to Lost.
(1) Why would a universe course correct — as you suggest it did for Desmond — in a many worlds interpretation?
I would think that, instead of course correction, we would just have multiple diverging universes rather than one universe that sought some pre-determined outcome. In fact, if we indeed have this vast multi-verse, does this in some way undermine the very concept that any one universe (i.e. Lost universe) has a predetermined outcome?
Most importantly , have we dealt probability the upper hand rather than free will, fate, destiny, synchronicity etc. to determine outcomes?
This is problematic because, unless done in the most artful of ways, it would deal a serious blow to many of the themes running through Lost.
(2) Would a multi-verse interpretation serve to undermine the higly-crafted character development in the show?
Considering the depth of the character storyline, the danger exists that expounding upon a multi-verse theory would significantly undermine the story. In my opinion, us Lost fans would then be forced to confront the realization that each character (and all characters together) are making (or have made) every single combination of different choices available.
Now, scientifically, I can’t rule out multiverses but considering the emphasis on self-development, struggle, enlightenment and choice, a multi-verse universe could be a distracting concept — taking away from each character’s struggle to, quite literally, FIND themselves.
I mean, in a multi-verse, Jack called the boat and he didn’t, Charlie sacrificed himself and didn’t, Locke is Jacob, Ben is Jacob, Jin is Jacob, Kate is Jacob, I am Jacob and you are too.
(3) In a true multi-verse, can we be sure Desmond returned to the same world that he left? If he did not, should we care?
This naws at me because it seems intuitive to me that by very virtue of the fact that something was changed in the timeline of the existing Lost universe, the current reality to which Desmond returns would not be the same universe which he left (in a multiple worlds formulation) especially under multiple world theory.
(4) Beyond charting a difficult area of physics, there are some serious philosophical/religious queries raised by multi-verses. For example, if I exist in multiple different universes, do I have a soul in all these different universes? Am I a truly distinct being? (i..e. if I ran into me in another universe (assuming I could travel to one), would we simply be strangers with the same DNA, or would we have some deeper cosmic connection?)
(5) Great exposition of your thoughts — way better than mine. But I respectfully disagree.
Dear lgs,
You make an extremely valid point. And you have every right to respectfully disagree.
Like you, I’d love to know that there was only ONE universe, moving in linear fashion from past to present.
However, if Lost were to open itself to time travel (except time dilation), I don’t see it explaining itself without invoking a many-worlds, or parallel universe theory. Hence my dislike of time-travel/loop theories to begin with! (Read my other posts: I’ve been quite vocal about this issue)
But we’ll see what happens as the seasons progress. The answers should become clear then…
Dear lgs,
Actually, the writers could take a creative leap to use time-travel without using a many worlds interpretation (unscientific, but who cares!). They could suggest there is only ONE universe, moving from past to present.
The EM anomaly somehow affected his consciousness, allowing it to travel back to his ONE past for 2 days - a place that he changed, having servere consequences to his ONE future. His visions are a result of this - a product of the universe “course-correcting” to repair the mistakes Desmond unwillingly caused to the ONE universal timeline.
That would work for me, too:)
YKTN, I think your last post makes a lot more sense than multiple realities. It would be a little quantum leap but ok. I just don’t buy that des actually went back into the past. He had a dream and woke up naked. And as for seeing the future, clairvoyance has a much deeper history than time travel, and functions quite indepently of time travel. Always has. It’s probably the third oldest profession in the world
lgs, YKTN and lockeko: good points.
Paintgirl18: yes, i was a late, and very small, contributor when the tin-foil-hats-thread was being created. funny stuff —> you should read it.
you know the name,
Got ya 100% and I am not a big proponent of time-loop/time-travel theories. However, as even your analysis shows above, it is good to keep an open mnd and try and hammer out — well hey, if they go this way, how would they make it work.
But, as I am guessing you also believe, any scenario the show comes up with in time-travel does potentially create significant issues for the storyline, scientifically and philosophically.
One point though. Time-travel, imho, does not require a multi-verse . In fact, a single universe theory is not any more unscientific nor does it have less support than a multi-verse theory. If anything, there is barely any scientific support (besides some brilliant theorizing) for a multi-verse. A Multi-verse is at best, a theoretical prediction often arising from theoretical constructs (i.e. string theory for example) that themselves are at least suspect among their peers. That said, I think the writers could get away with time-travel in a single universe without sacrificing scientific credibility.
As to a linear flow of tiem, a one directional and linear time-arrow is not an unscientific principle, if time at its most basic level, is our perception of ever-increasing entropy. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, entropy in a closed system is ever increasing. Thus, entropy flows in one direction and time may be our understanding of this entropic flow.
Dear lgs,
I majored in Physics, and I agree with you 100%. That’s what I tried to make clear in (32), but you made the point extremely well above.
Time-travel is better understood (in my opinon) at a multi-dimentional level, but there are differing schools of thought concerning this matter.
My only disagreement with you would be this :”the writers could get away with time-travel in a single universe without sacrificing scientific credibility”
If one is to assume Hawking’s Chronological Protection Conjencture (CPC), invoking time-travel in itself undermines scientific credibility.
But Lost is a tv show - an excellent tv show at that. Nothing needs to be 100% scientifically acurate, and not invoke ideas of fate, destiny, psychic or supernatural powers, etc (all which are pseudosciences at best).
If I wanted true 100% science, I’d read a science journal, and not expect to learn it from a tv show…
My theory still could hold true without opening it to a many-worlds scenario, and after your post (30), I believe if they were going to incorporate time-travel at all, it would transpire in a single universe.
Thanks for your posts, lgs. I definitely appreciate them!
you know, Thanks! And, trust me, I could tell from your initial post that you knew a heck of a lot more about physics than I do. As with many Lost fans, I am operating at near the lowest level of competence on this issue: 2 physics courses in colleges (1, a non-calc physics at that), a Brief History of Time, and some brushing up via the internet and wikipedia is about all I’m bringing to the table on this one.
As to my quote, you are totally right. What I was trying to get at, was that if we bought into time travel, I think they could credibly have that time travel take place in a single universe as opposed to a multi-verse if we had already bought the notion of time travel. Of course, that would mean I bought into successful time travel of a complex biological organism…which seems a bit beyond the pale at this point. As such, I defer to the man with the degree on this one.
As to Hawking’s CPC, I can’t be sure if it is entirely correct — at least until there are significant advances in a quantum theory of gravity (that someone then explains to me). I know I disagree with his positing that we would be “awash in time travelers” but that is obviously a tangential point to this argument.
I am with you though. It is a tv show. As long as they make it border on believable, I can buy in. I just hope that it would benefit the show if they went this direction. Increasingly, it seems there may be some issues surrounding time that will need to be explained (i.e. Desmond’s apparent time-travel, producers admitting time on the island is different, the Casimir Effect, etc.).
Thanks for the back and forth. It was informative!
Dear lgs,
The pleasure is all mine… :)