LOST-Theories.com

nice work, do you think at some subconscious level des is aware he is being used in this form

Dear jazprof,

Brilliant! I’m certain that our combined theories are hitting the mark. if not, we can’t be that far off.

Everything seems clearer now…

As an aside, if Desmond continues having visions into season 4, I believe they’ll somehow concern Locke…

hmm.. what about Claire?

If I can remember good, didn’t Desmond save Claire, resuscitating her on the beach in “Flashes Before Your Eyes”? So I guess he also interfered with Claire’s fate.

How does she fit in the picture?

Dear katrina,

Didn’t we also find out the psychic was lying? Was’nt it his daughter who told Claire?

Suggestions, anyone?

Jaz: it was isbjorn who posted a theory (I apologize to all the other posters that also have a theory along this line) that Alpert is the real puppet master, or at least one of them. Alpert is trying to pull a coup to oust Ben.

This is bending my mind. I was SOOOO convinced ProfO was right that Ben and Mrs Hawking were/are on opposite sides. But I always thought Alpert was in cahoots with Widmore. If Alpert is manipulating the strings of Locke/Eko to oust Ben and Alpert is Widmore, is Ben on his own because I don’t think he’s Dharma anymore? Hawking wants that key turned, that’s obvious. Therefore whoever Hawking is with wants the island to be discovered. Does that mean Hawking is with Dharma/Hanso - pulling the strings of Jack/Des?

And am I dense or what? It just now dawned on me that Eko and Locke are mirror images of each other, like the negative of a strip of film. Even their names are quasi-mirror images of each other.

kat—I was reading some of the articles at the astral voyage site mentioned by dab. There was an article about how it’s important to avoid “etheric junk” meaning interference from negative energy sources and talking about how some places/people can be a source of that negative energy: “Ever wonder why some places lift you up and some places bring you down— same with people for that matter?”

so “lift it up,” the astral plane, and the fact that Jack is a spinal surgeon (source of spiritual energy=chakra), dunno how it’s all going to work out but that’s got to be the connection

yktn—I’d have to double check but I don’t think it was the daughter who told Claire—I think Eko’s connected to the daughter though.

Dear Stip,

Good points! Maybe there are actually THREE parties fighting for the island

• Ben for himself (hence his “falling out” with Jacob)

• Widmore/Dharma/Hawking with Jack and Des as their pieces

• The Island with Locke and the late Eko as its pieces

And brilliant about Locke=Eko quasi-mirror - more evidence of reversals/mirrors in Lost!

Dear jazprof,

I remember now - I think the psychic’s daughter told Eko her father was a fraud.

That’s why I assumed he was lying to Claire…

Great post as always,jaz +1! You make it all so clear.

Kat: I will totally bawl right along with you if Des says that at some point. lol

Stip: Nice pickup on the Eko/Locke mirror image mention!!

katrina: It seems that on the Lost Season 2 DVD Lost Connections there is a previously unseen clip where Malkin tells Eko that he was paid $16,000 by a couple in Los Angeles to convince a pregnant girl to board a plane.

Dear guys and gals,

Concerning persons/places with negative energy: The Casimir effect works by creating a negative energy source that counters the four known positive forces!

The island has a natural Casimir Effect!

Will Desmond ask Jack to lift “something” up at the Orchid Station?!

Dear xiv,

YES, that’s where I saw it!

Dear Kat,

I was mistaken - the daughter spoke to Eko, not Claire!

Stip, why do you think Alpert is Widmore? When we were talking about the black rock yesterday I was actually wondering if Alpert on the ship will turn out to have some lowly position or will be someone who sided with the slaves against Hanso/Widmore.

going with the Ben on his own idea for a sec:

Ben—wanted the hatch blown, but not the failsafe key turned? Wants Jack to make the call? Wanted the Looking Glass decoded? Maybe he’s a rogue element now (which is why he got cancer). He doesn’t support either side—he just wants both of them on the island and fighting in order to create a chaotic atmosphere where he can retain power? Hmmm—just a thought. Was reading an article on cooperation that shell recommended the other day and it mentioned that cancer is a result of competition between cells winning out over cooperation. Those do seem to be the two social organizing principles at work on the island, and I would definitely say that Ben favors the competitive model.

yktn—yeah that’s right, but I don’t think we know for sure that she is. So what made the psychic change his story to Claire (first that she had to keep the baby, then that giving her money and the plane ticket—and where did he get that money)? I think somone (Christian?) got to him and paid him to change the story and get Claire on the plane—so the question is which side did that?

sorry that should be “we don’t know for sure that HE is” —Malkin a fraud that is.

jazprof: it might just be the couple that wanted to adopt her child (Arlene and Joseph Stewart). They were from Los Angeles.

Dear xiv,

Who exactly ARE Arlene and Joseph, and why do they want just Claire’s baby?

As always, answers yield even more questions! ;)

Dear xiv,

I think I’m with you on this point, though. I’m not entirely convinced that Malkin was telling the truth…

yktn: Hmm… true true.. Remember how Malkin called Claire constantly, and was frantic during her final visit, and also why “it has to be THIS flight”?

no worries, kat, tangents are good

have to say I’m really liking yktn’s idea about the Orchid station

kat—no I think Eko was working for the island as well. In fact in the hatch explosion you might have those three sides represented—

Locke doing what Ben wanted him to do Eko trying to protect the island by continuing to press the button Des turning the key and making the island visible

Since the psychic lied to Eko about what happened to his daughter (we know this because the daughter eventually found Eko and gave him information that she could only have had if she’d actually died and been revived) I presume that he was also lying to Eko about being a fraud. Eko was an investigator for the Vatican, and the psychic didn’t need him snooping around. More to the point, Eko was a skeptical investigator for the Vatican (as I’m told many such investigators are) and the psychic no-doubt knew this, so he likely also knew that Eko would easily believe his claims to be a fraud and walk away.

All of that said, it isn’t impossible that the psychic had been a fraud at one time or another. But I don’t think we’re meant to think his experience with Claire was not genuine. I think we’re meant to understand that he really did know Claire’s plane would crash, and that she and Aaron would survive it, and that this state of affairs was truly the best hope for humanity… whatever way he knew it.

As for which pieces are where… I’ve been meaning to post some large theory summarizing that but other obligations beckon.

I will say this: we’re talking about chess here. We can’t always judge who the different factions are just based upon who benefits from what transpires. For example, just because both Hawking and Ben wanted the station destroyed, it doesn’t follow that they’re on the same side. The best chess strategy is the one where you let your opponent think she is winning when, in truth, you are controlling the board.

Remember also that some people are mere pawns who will be moved around by any faction at will and can’t be considered to be a primary tool of either side.

Dear jazprof,

Your’e right about the 3 “forces” at play in the hatch!

Dear Kat,

I’m convinced that Claire was meant to get on that flight. I’m just not sure Malkin was telling the truth.

However, this brings up another intriguing point: Claire’s role in the “big picture” was to fall in love with Charlie. If Charlie didn’t think he was sacrificing himself to save Claire, so she could be rescued, he wouldn’t have gone to the looking glass…

Could this mean the “powers that be” that got Claire to the island is linked to the Dharma/Widmore camp?

The more I read into it, it seems that whatever opposing forces in the universe (Yin/Yang, Light/Dark, etc) CHOSE its players by putting them on this flight, that ultimately was meant to crash on the island. Of all the 324 passengers, only 71 initially survived.

Out of this, only a few of the passengers (the major and sub-major characters) and previous visitors to the island have apparent connections to each other, directly or indirectly influencing the other that, led them to the island: the Ultimate battleground between the forces of light and dark.

Classic myth.

The board is set; the pieces are chosen and are moving; throw in the wild card (who now appears to be Ben), and you have the greatest show on tv!

I sense, though, that there are at least four major factions (and perhaps a number of sub-factions):

Those looking for the island. Ms. Hawking seemed to reveal that Desmond is their key piece. To my knowledge, he is their only ace.

Those trying to get off the island. Jack, Sayid, and Juliet are key players here, although they obviously are often used by the other factions. While their efforts ultimately serve the faction that is searching for the island, it is unclear as to how much one faction controls the other. Given the “daylight crash”, though, it’s becoming more conceivable that the pilot of flight 815 actually hijacked the plane (maybe the “big reveal” in the first episode is the copilot showing signs of being murdered? dunno…) and the reason the survivors were “sent” there was because they were deemed most likely to find a way to expose the island.

Those who want to stay on the island. Ben and Locke are the key players here, with Ben clearly pulling all the strings. Ben understood the synchronistic connection between his cancer and Jack. Ben had figured out why the crash survivors are there and he is using all of it to his advantage. He has allowed his opponent to think he’s beaten, but it will be very disappointing in terms of plot and character development if this proves true, so I doubt very much that it is.

Those who oppose Ben directly. Richard and Jacob appear to be the main players here, although I wouldn’t assume too much about them or their motives. Still, it’s clear that Ben sees himself as not only playing chess against those who want to find the island… and against the crash survivors… but also against some within his own ranks. This group fights with Ben for control over John. I believe whatever force gives John his visions is allied with this group. This group most represents, to me, the “will of the island”. The smoke monster, however, seems more aligned with Ben’s style of chess.

Eko, it seems to me, was being played by both sides. Remember… there does appear to be a reason for “the island” to also want the station destroyed. Recall that the destruction of the station DID cut the island off (which “the island” would want). The destruction of the station alone did not guarantee that the island would be found… in fact, without other factors considered, it would have only accomplished cutting the island off. It only exposed the island because of Desmond.

Recall Ben wanted Eko originally… he was supposed to be taken… and Ben clearly wanted the button-pushing to stop… but Eko eventually became committed (note: through visions) to pressing the button… although I think he misunderstood how it was he was supposed to “help John”…

Because I can’t think of any faction who would want the button-pushing to continue. I mean… I suppose it’s possible that “the island” faction might want it to continue because it did, somehow, hide the island (in which case I’d be wrong about what John would have thought if he’d gone to the Pearl BEFORE cracking open the Swan) but it doesn’t seem to me that the Swan did help hide the island. Communications was still being sent and received. People were coming and going. I think “the island” knew that the failsafe would stop all of that… and without Desmond in the picture it would not have obviously exposed the island.

OK… I’ll stop now. Dang, I could have just written that theory in the time I’ve been typing all of this! (Yes… I’m an idiot…)

yeah, Prof I like that description of the alliances. I guess we can see the Ben/Richard division clearly in the Brig—another effect of that was to send Sawyer on a more violent path. I wonder if that was intended or just an accidental byproduct. That’s one of the most interesting elements to me—the way the players may create more in their moves than they know.

Dear ProfOzone,

Your post should have begun as a theory: +1 for effort ;)

Speaking of the Pilot, there was a VERY interesting “Additional” (not deleted!) scene in the Season1 DVD set between Claire and the PILOT!

Claire tells the Pilot about how she didn’t want the baby and was uncertain of what she is doing.

Then the Pilot reveals some of his back story - his mom also divorced his dad (I’m not certain of his name, but it could have been Roger. I’ll check!) for another guy who a psychic told his mother was coming for her. His mother has been waiting for this Bernard almost all the Pilot’s life!

Whatever the case, he promised Claire he’ll do everything in his power to keep the flight a smooth one.

What do you guys make of that?!

yktn—only the weird name coincidence: Roger=Ben’s Dad and Bernard=Rose’s husband

Prof—sorry to have caused the premature postiness—(it was a Zoot moment, that’s my excuse ‘n I’m sticking with it) ;-)

Dear ProfOzone,

I concur that the Swan was not “hiding” the island. The Orchid was doing that naturally.

However, not pushing the button ultimately led to the discharge and anomaly detonation, revealing the island through it’s electromagnetic signature…

Orchid+Swan = Island completely hidden

Orchid+Swan discharge = Island revealed as long as the button is not pushed, or the world ends!

Orchid+Swan detonation = Island revealed for brief instant

Orchid+Swan detonation+Looking Glass Jamming = Island revealed for an instant, but cannot be traced any longer.

So, Ben wanted the EM anomaly destroyed so he wouldn’t run the risk of the island being discovered at a future date.

What he didn’t count on was that Penny and the other “Force” were already listening (for Desmond), waiting for Ben to make the first move.

Well, right, yktn… my observation is that nobody but the powers looking for the island planned on Desmond, so all powers, including “the island”, believed the destruction of the Swan was in their best interest. (And by “Desmond” I mean not only everything Desmond does, but everything related to Desmond, including Penny searching for him… recall, though, that the anomaly being detected still wasn’t enough to put the island at risk… Desmond had to take a party out to find Naomi… had he not done so, the satellite phone would never have been found and the island would still be hidden).

I’m not sure what to make of any deleted scene, frankly. :-) All I know is that if the plane went west instead of east, it could only have done so with the pilots deliberate knowledge.

That darned Zoot!

Just watched the scene from the season 1 DVD again - It’s under the “Lost Flashback” from the season finale. As it’s not a deleted scene (that’s in another section), I’m assuming it’s part of the canon.

Some of the interesting things the Pilot tells Claire:

1) I”ll make the ride “extra-smooth” for you.

2) His mom and dad divorced when he was 10. The mom paid 400 USD to a tarot reader to predict her future.

3) The mom was told she’ll meet a rich, tall, handsome man with a name begining with R. Her mom went with “Roger.”

4) The mom left her boyfriend, Bernard, a computer programmer with a bad combover. (Note: This Bernard is not a dentist. If it turns out to be Rose’s husband, this could finally explain why he has such bad teeth for a “dentist”!). Bernard later sold his company for 39 million USD .

5) Roger never came.

6) Psychics are just “magicians” who are not big enough to make it at Vegas.

7) Tells Claire not to worry, as he’s seen pregnant moms on his plane many times…

This is after Claire practically told the Pilot her entire life story!

My take: The Pilot knew he was taking Claire and Oceanic 815 to the island. He was just comforting her, because he knew what was going to happen (she won’t be giving her baby away in LA)

ytkn, I agree with your last comment, and have a follow up question. if the losties are in the past, (I hate time travel/manipulation/loop theories) how long would they have just been hanging around in the south pacific waiting for an explosion. However, assuming the losties are in the past, when naomi appears, does she go back to their time, or do they jump forward to hers?

Dear lockeko,

I say neither. Like you, I’m not a big fan of time travel/manipulation/loop theories. The only one I’m entertaining at the moment is Desmond’s travel into his past (like I’ve stated in my “more flashes before your eyes” theory).

This is due to the recently revealed Orchid station, and the producers’ acknowledgement that Desmond did experience something akin to time travel.

Also, I don’t think the losties are in the South Pacific, and that Naomi’s boat is there, either (see “where on earth is the island?!”)

Most of the evidence so far (in my opinion) points to the time on the island being the same as the time off the island, irrespective of the hatch implosion…

I agree with you ytkn, and based on the estimated flight time, at six hours into the flight they were halfway to LA, I can’t imagine why the pilot would turn west instead of trying to get to Hawaii, he had to be close. I absolutely agree that time is moving the same on and off the island, and I guess our only disagreement is that I believe des only dreamt of the past rather than actually visiting it.

ProfO: if that stream of logic isn’t captured in one of your 127 theories, it needs to be. That was masterful.

Heh… thanks, Stip. It’s all out there somewhere. That’s why I’ve wanted to put it all in two or three theories (the “Integrated Paranormal Island Theory” was my first crack at this plan). Maybe I’ll get to the other one or two eventually.

jaz: Another great post, with lots of insight! I also agree with what Prof has to say, as well. He certainly knows how to hit the nail on the head!

thanks dab :-)

yeah, if I did nothing else but act as a catalyst for Prof’s thoughts about the 4 factions I would consider this a great success :-)

(dusting off hands) and now, my work here is done

I feel so… used…

Dang that Zoot!

heehee ;-)

Prof: Yeah, but it’s all in a good way, you know! And speaking of your next theory, when is it coming? Get crack-a-lackin! Never mind, Fred!

kat: It’s not even Friday, yet! lol

Who me? Now what on earth would make you think that? Mraaghhhaa!

thanks kat—I’m just rereading what Prof said about Des being the only ace for the faction wanting the island revealed. I think that hooks up really well with your theory on Des as the archtypal hero. The interesting sub-faction there is Des-Penny, and then also Des’s quest to prove himself an honorable man. He being the only game piece for that side, beginning to realize how he’s been used, the fact that he and Penny want to find each other more than anything else in the world, and then his need for honor and guilt over Charlie—that’ll be some good story to look forward to.

Prof: don’t feel used…

feel…. exploited.

Kind of like a champion racehorse.

Dear guys and gals,

What a twist it would be if Penny was then revealed to be a “bad guy”?

That would also be a good, albeit tragic, story to look forward to…

You got that right Stippie!

jaz: I would agree with you, that this will make an awesome stroy line when it unfolds. We know so much about Des, but have yet to learn about the mysterious Penny.

ugh! You Know The Name…if that happens, I’m falling on my sword. It would crush Des. No crush isn’t the word…demoralize is better.

Dabbi, we need to talk….

You betcha! I’m ready for you!! When and where???

Ever heard of that pizza place called “Nino’s” ?

Ah Stip I’m right there with ya—I so want the romance to win out. sigh

And, umm, your use of metaphor, whew….gonna go get a cold drink…and then pour it over my head.

Hey, jazzie! I am entirely shocked with you woman! A threesome? Sorry, not into that! lol

Stip: Se ya at nino’s

Jaz: metaphors are a wonderful thing. Just look at how we devour them on this site.

dab—I think you may have misinterpreted the target :-) I was referring to Stip’s comment #55

but look where your mind went,…lol

mmm stip, yup nothing like a good tasty metaphor to chew over

kat: Now why did you have to remind me about poor Claire! What will become of her, without Charlie? Hopefully, the void will be filled when she finds out about Jack and her being half siblings.

Completely off subject, I found something out…in the episode where the two dudes are “listening” for magnetic anomalies to report to penny, the one they missed is logged on their computer as #7418880…this coincidentally enough is the product of our mysterious numbers from the hatch…and yep, im probably just late in recognising this…so sue me. :)

TT: you’re Aces mate. Its only for REALLY ridiculous things do we sue in the U.S. Spilling coffee on yourself, etc. But Lost posting, dude that’s like our astral plane. Actually, your comment is pretty cool, and I want to know what it means (the 7418880) in EMP language, but I’m fried from working, so my mind has moved to margaritas and pizza and swinging in a hammock. I gotta go.

Actually I read in a magazine this morning about a guy here in the US that sued the company that made his car, (chevy I think) because he got in an accident in his car that was from the early 80s didnt have airbags…and he sued because he felt they should have invented airbags then…now I dont know that he won…LORD I hope not…

Locke and Charlie are the two people who would have had very different trajectories on the island if Des hadn’t been there. — jazprof

That is especially interesting given the fact that the island (or call it fate) wanted to kill off Charlie so that he could not get to the Looking Glass, whereas the island is obviously connected to Locke in a way that makes him want to stay there along with the rest of the survivors. They are completely opposite in that way. The island (fate) apparently does not want them to leave the island, and the fact that Desmond has been given somewhat of a way to influence all this might make him the man to rescue all of the survivors in the end. If this is physical rescue, or mental rescue, I cannot tell.

I assume that the way they (atleast Jack + Kate) got rescued in Jack’s reality (the flashforward) - whichever way that may be, was not the right one, since Jack is obviously ‘lost’, which probably indicates that fate didn’t turn out the way it was supposed to do.

I hope this makes sense somewhat. :)

Thinker: how many times do you think the EMP has happened - whether they noticed it or not?